Ep115_coaching_final
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Adam Gragg: [00:00:00] If you would have told me five years ago that I would have coaching groups as a part of Decide Your Legacy with people from different companies and different walks of life meeting together for a half a day and me letting go of the outcome and not having to teach and control and really kind of letting [00:01:00] go.

I would have told you you were totally crazy because that was not, that would not have been an environment where I would have felt comfortable, but now it's exactly what I enjoy the most and it's coaching and not counseling. That's what I'm going to talk to you about today is how I'm finding a lot of joy and have found a lot of joy.

through letting go and it's because I engage in coaching and not counseling. And coaching is an orientation. It is different than counseling. So today is, we're going to talk about coaching versus counseling. I have a special guest, a Decide Your Legacy team member. Another way that I have relinquished control is having a full time team member.

He runs the show and his name is also Adam. You can call him Lloyd. You're gonna get to know him later in the podcast as well. So let's jump in. and engage this topic. So this is episode number 115 of the Decide Your Legacy podcast. Coaching, which is different than counseling. Think of executive coaching, life coaching, life transition coaching, [00:02:00] counseling.

You're thinking something clinical, therapy. I'm your host and I am both. Actually, I've been a coach, a therapist for 25 years, a content creator, a speaker. I love helping people find the self confidence and clarity they need to face their biggest fears to live their legacy today. I'm in the business of life transformations, and I get shocked by my clients.

That is a great part of my job, is I get to see them make bigger changes than I. Well, I mean, like, didn't they thought possible. And unfortunately at times I'm like surprised myself. I really shouldn't be. I hate to say that, but sometimes I am, which is really cool. So I talk about stuff that I struggle with myself.

I'm a fellow traveler, which is one of the aspects of coaching versus counseling. I have not gotten it all figured out myself. I like to share something uncomfortable that I do every episode. I mean, that I've done recently every episode. And because. Nothing is more important to your [00:03:00] mental health than facing your fears and nothing is more damaging than playing it safe.

Playing it safe isn't a great thing, so what I did is I had a conversation that I had been trying, well, subconsciously I would say, avoiding, making excuses, didn't want to have it. It was hard, it was with a contractor that I think highly of, and it was a hard conversation to have. So I had that This morning, I wanted to put it off.

I wanted to make excuses. It wasn't fun. I did it. I let go and it went actually really well, but it was a tough, crucial conversation. I mean, it was not fun. So this is the podcast that you do. You don't just listen to it. And my, my listeners, you get to do uncomfortable stuff, man. Like I want you to start off with an action.

So what is the hard conversation that you're avoiding in your life? What is a hard situation that you're avoiding that you may procrastinate on? You're not doing it. Maybe it's something that you could be engaging like a hobby or somebody that you could be spending more time with or a situation that you could be addressing or a bad habit that you could be saying no to.

What is something hard that you keep putting off? Keep making excuses. You keep [00:04:00] procrastinating. And we're, as we talk about coaching versus counseling, I want you to think about this issue that you want to make a big change with. And you're going to unpack it and be able to make some changes. So speak it into your phone, write it down.

What do you want to make a big change within your life? You want to have that conversation with somebody that's been hard. I mean, and you know that the outcome is not going to be great because like I knew this morning, I knew the outcome probably wasn't going to be really positive, but I still had the conversation.

And then I was able to process it with other people and myself and just learn to let go of it. But it was hard putting it off. So let's jump into this content. So we got four main differences between coaching and counseling, clinical stuff here. So, and I had a client that came into my office, I think of this, and it was, it was, it was years ago, but it was really interesting because he left the last session discouraged.

Because, and he came in for help with depression. All right. And it had centered on some things that happened that were bad in his past. And it was, [00:05:00] I mean, I won't go into a whole lot of details, but a lot of loss. Okay. So loss of a father, divorce, different things that didn't go really well. And then left discouraged.

And I was kind of discouraged thinking, you know, man, I mean, I like my clients to feel energized when they leave, but I know that a lot of times it's not the case. When you talk about things that are difficult, he came back two weeks later, which happens because that's when I have. clients kind of visit with me a lot of times.

It's on a two week cycle, sometimes every week. And when he came back, he was energized and positive and encouraged. He was like a different person. It was like a transformation that had happened in his life. And I asked him what had happened. It was different. And it wasn't anything that I did. I mean, I had talked about some different tools and things, the session previously, but what he told me that was different is that he had gotten involved, taken an action to volunteer for, it was a retirement community.

Interacting with people and making a difference in their lives. And he was [00:06:00] super pumped up about it and had gone and done that twice since we had visited. And then it was gonna go back and make it more of a habitual activity in his life that changed his life. It was an action that he took. It was uncomfortable, he didn't want to do it 'cause he had talked about it previously but had procrastinate on it.

Procrastinated on it, and then he actually engaged it and it made a big difference. So the first. And that to me is an illustration of one of the big differences between coaching and counseling. So, and I'll get to that part there, but what I have found is that for myself, when I have this coaching orientation towards people that It changes the level of enjoyment that I have and the energy that I have.

I mean, yesterday I had a company that I was visiting with and they asked me to speak to their leadership team and it's a company about 200 employees and they wanted me to do a half day workshop with their leadership team. We're interested in that. And I was thinking, you [00:07:00] know, this would be Not so fun if I was doing all the teaching, but it'll be really fun when I let go and I ask them the questions and I get them and encourage them and help them get to know each other.

So, I was super energized by it. At first, I wasn't really energized by it, and then as I thought about it, I started to become energized by it because as a coach with that orientation, I'm not the expert. I'm a partner with them. I'm a part of the journey. And that's the first main difference. A coach is a partner and they're not an expert.

A therapist counselor is often viewed as an expert. There's a lot of pressure on that because they're teaching and giving you tools rather than me being somebody who is walking alongside you to help you down this journey that you're going through. And that attitude. changes my approach to other people.

It's like a breath of fresh air. I get to let go and say, I don't have to fix these people. They're not even broken. And then all of my experiences, both good and bad, are training ground for helping other people. I [00:08:00] remember as a therapist, when I went through some difficult things that I considered as quote unquote failures that I didn't want to share any of those things with other people.

So I didn't want to share with other people that I had been unemployed and really discouraged in that process. I didn't want to share that with people because I thought they would judge me and think that I couldn't help them as a therapist because I had that tremendous, you know, Seven months discouraging situation, but it's been one of the things that's helped me as a coach the most going through loss in my life.

So I don't need to be perfect. I'm not an expert. I have my own struggles. I don't need to hide this. I'm not going to in a weird way, share it with clients unless it's going to be helpful to them. But a lot of times it often is. So I have a article that I encourage you to Check out, it's called Finding a Great Counselor, Finding a Great Counselor or Coach, Finding a Great Coach.

And they'll have a link, we'll have a link to this in the show notes as well. So you don't have to be perfect, but I will say that as a coach, that you do [00:09:00] have to be somebody who is a role model. That you're looking for somebody that is going to be living a life where they're striving to be the best version of themselves.

They're not taking the easy way. They're facing their fears. They're doing things to challenge themselves. And I think that's really fair to look at somebody you're going to hire to say, how are they doing it? trying to apply the stuff that they're teaching to their own life. And are they somebody who is going to be engaging consistently in the stuff they're talking about?

That's a big deal. And if you have somebody that is trying to help you with your mental health or with your physical health, and they're not really healthy and you notice that in them, I mean, maybe they're trying to work on it or to make, strides in that area. So who knows? You have a doctor, a medical doctor, family doctor who is, you know, 50 pounds overweight, and they tell you that they're working on it.

You know, they gained some weight after they gotten an accident on their bike, [00:10:00] and then they're figuring out how to get back healthy again. And you know, that's, could be a great doctor that's really working and making strides. But if you had somebody that was really overweight and they're like, you know, acting like it's normal and healthy, I mean, that would make, give you some pause.

Cause I mean, they're mind. And the objective is to help you with help. Now they have knowledge, they can help you no matter what, even though they're not healthy. But it is inspiring to see people that are trying to apply it themselves. So you can check that out. So the second difference, and then I'm going to invite my guest on.

So the second difference between coaching and coaching. And counseling that I think is really significant is coaching is about thriving. It's about making significant progress in your life. You're already at a place where you feel like things are going okay. I mean, you're not in the hospital, you're not needing, you know, triage.

But you want to do better. You feel stuck in some way. You want to get to that next level. Counseling is often about getting to a baseline. Getting back to where it's normal. It's not necessarily, I mean, I'm not saying every situation is like that.

Like I may, when I [00:11:00] did clinical work and I made the shift of saying I'm a coach doing clinical work, I had that kind of mentality. Now you couldn't bill for coaching because coaching has this, I have a very specific goal in mind that I want to reach. So a coach is going to be somebody that's going to help you to get healthier physically, to do better financially, to do better in your relationships, to do better and to live a life of purpose.

They're going to help you to get there to that place. Now, it doesn't mean they're not going to deal with some of the past, but a lot of times it's about getting to that next great place in your life. That's not necessarily the case with counseling. They may be depressed and can't sleep. I mean, so much anxiety that it's debilitating.

They can't make it to work because they're drinking all the time and they have unhealthy coping mechanisms. They're consistently applying to their life. That's not the case with coaching. You're already at a place. And that's the contract that I have with clients is that if they have a clinical issue that they're agreeing to go get help from a counselor while they do coaching with me.

So, it's a big commitment. So, I haven't had that happen before, where somebody has an issue that I think this would be really important to talk to [00:12:00] a counselor about in conjunction with coaching, you know, like a drinking issue or some kind of addiction. I mean, an eating disorder, things that it can be getting in the way.

So, an activity in, first of all, this is Adam Lutes, and you know, he's a team member for Decide Your Legacy. A big, cool thing that's happened over the last five months is having Adam, and we can call him Lloyd, which is crazy, because that's my grandfather's name, my dad's middle name, and my brother's middle name.

L L O Y D. It's not L Lloyd. It's Lloyd. You can call him Lloyd. So, I just wanted him to have a chance to introduce himself. Like, how'd you get involved in Decide Your Legacy? Like, what's, you know, been like being here five years, I mean, five months now and just the good and the bad, just share them all the crazy things that I do that are annoying.

I mean, whatever you want to share, go for it. Yeah.

Adam Lutes: I don't know about the annoying things cause it might take a little bit of time. Oh, you know

Adam Gragg: it, you know, I have annoying things. It's

Adam Lutes: been, it's been awesome. You know, I got I was just in a place where I was. Unemployed I was coming from a failed business endeavor where we lost a whole bunch of money and had too many [00:13:00] assets and it was just, it was not a healthy situation.

So, I had to go look for work somewhere else and saw the job application, said, coaching, what is this? And the more I thought about it, the more I got excited about helping. People really make life change, and one of our first conversations in the interview process was really encouraging to me, where I was like, this is some place that I could really see myself enjoying and working, because it's not just pushing pixels around, or it's not just filling a quota, but it's really establishing life change and life impact for a lot of people.

And then throughout the time that I've been working here I've seen myself become more challenged and start even growing in different aspects and areas that I wouldn't have had an opportunity anywhere else. So it's been just an incredible experience really. Now interesting thing that has happened is [00:14:00] that Adam has taken over half of my office space because he is that people person that he talked about earlier.

So it's been great working shoulder to shoulder next to each other. As when he says he really does enjoy connecting with people. Ideal. Ideal. Days when we work with groups of people, he is like on the top of the mountain and he could go and fly. It is. It's really good. It is.

Adam Gragg: Yeah. And then I, I might meet with clients in my office and I come into Adam's office and I'm doing my work in there talking to him the rest of the day.

I mean, I am an extroverted type person. And one thing is that, one of the things I loved about Adam when I interviewed him, because I, I had interviewed, I mean, at least, 50 people. I mean, it's been a long, it's been a long process to find somebody because I knew his role would be a really key role.

And maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit, but, I don't think so. I think it was, I saw a bunch of things as it worked out and I'm not, I just believe there's, there's no coincidence, but I love the fact that he had been involved in a startup business because he was willing to take [00:15:00] risks in his life and then even deal with the emotional.

stuff there, knowing that, man, it didn't go the way I wanted it to go, but not seeing himself as a failure, but seeing that as, I believe it's a both and. I mean, you can fail at something, but you're not a failure. And so I was very intriguing because those have been the things that have helped my clients the most, the things I've been able to talk to them about, at least that I'm not.

I'm like, gosh, I wish this wouldn't have happened, but it did. And now I can use it for good. And now I can use it and then see the big picture right there. And so here's the, here's a cool activity that I like clients to go through and it's where they think about, and I've done this with a lot of clients over the years where they, they, I asked them, and I'm probably inspired by the book, The Five Regrets of the Dying, where.

She is this worker, this, I think she was a, a, a nurse or a, a nurse assistant, dealt with people in hospice and then collected data on what their biggest regrets were when they were on their deathbed. You know, one of them was that they didn't live the life that they had, that they wanted, they lived to please [00:16:00] other people.

They didn't stay connected with their friends, you know, they didn't, they worked too much, you know, they or they didn't work on the right stuff. It was other people's stuff and not their own stuff and their own passions. Yeah. So, so that, that book and then just. The question is for you, Adam, like what age, kind of a morbid question, but what age do you have in your mind that maybe, you know, when you would die, basically?

Yeah. You have an age in mind.

Adam Lutes: That's kind of surreal to think about because, you know, my grandparents all died fairly young. I think my oldest grandma was 78. And it's hard to think past that age yet. My uncles are now. Beyond that, and it's like, you know, that's something very attainable. So I think for me, it would probably be somewhere around that 85, 95 85, I think would probably be a sweet spot long enough to see enough.

Adam Gragg: We'll say 85 and I'm putting him on the spot. He didn't even know he's going to be on the podcast until probably two hours ago, three hours ago, maybe at the most. I mean, it may be like half an hour, half an hour. I [00:17:00] said, yeah, it was not, not long ago at all. So. Putting them on the spot here. So, so we're going to say 85.

And then what do you want your life to be like? How do you want to be in relationships, financially, health, you know, career, anything when you're 85? You're how old are you now? Right now? 32. All right. So we got, this is over, this is over 50 years. This is, this is 53 years, man. So like, that's a long time.

Adam Lutes: So I think I would be definitely, I wouldn't want to be working, working anymore. I would want to be. You know, just being able to invest in the people, invest into my family and just being around for them. I think that's the biggest key point and whatever time is necessary just being able to give to them.

Cause like definitely inspired by my dad. He worked really hard and then I think he's oh no, 60, Nope. Yeah. Sorry, dad. Like 65 is kind of like that key point when he wanted to retire. [00:18:00] I think it was 63 and he hit it and now he's open. Yeah. And so he's like, he can go and travel. He can go and just be involved with grandkids and he can find something to do and work, but it's nothing other than just a hobby.

And that's where I'd like to be is be there for my family and anything I'm involved in is basically a hobby at that point.

Adam Gragg: Okay. Well, you're 85, so you're not really, so how about health and how about, you know, you're just everything. Yeah. I mean, yeah. 85.

Adam Lutes: So I, I love to play music. So I'd love to still be playing music and I've been challenged, especially by my in laws where they're still hitting the pickleball court pretty hard.

They got that bug, they got that craze. So that's been inspirational where they're out and Yeah, they're in their late, early 60s. But it's like, that would be really cool being able even me playing hockey. I, there's a couple people in their 70s that still play. So being out and being physically capable.

Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Gragg: [00:19:00] Okay. So gut level, then you have this picture of being at this age. Yeah. This is a year before you die. It's like, hey, when you're 84, you have a level of health. You got relationally, financially, you have a picture. This is what I hear from a lot of different people. So if you have all that at that age of 85, then how much longer would you want to live?

Adam Lutes: I think I'd be good at 85, you know. Am I living longer? You know, I think I'd be cool to live longer and just to see the world kind of continue to progress. But I'm, Willing to go see Jesus at that point. I think I'd seen enough for my life.

Adam Gragg: Well, I hope you wouldn't just like throw in the towel.

You're healthy, you're financially fit, you're, you're doing good. So.

Adam Lutes: He's the one who's got the ultimate answer.

Adam Gragg: Maybe you would live, hopefully you'd want to live as long as you could. So, well, and then what bad habits do you have right now today? What are a couple bad habits you have today that aren't helping you to get to that point?

Adam Lutes: Yeah.

Adam Gragg: Yeah, you'd want to stop.

Adam Lutes: Yeah. I, I mean, I think the biggest one is really [00:20:00] understanding portion control and being okay with being hungry. I went through a diet a while back ago before we had kids and that was a big learning piece for me. It was like, I don't have to be full. It's okay to be hungry and it's okay to turn down the donut.

Adam Gragg: So that's a tough one right there. So what's another habit? that you know is not leading you towards where you want to be at 85.

Adam Lutes: Yeah. Being honest with myself and taking initiative. So whether that's making, being intentional and taking the initiative to work out or go for a walk or do something just sometimes it's just easy to kind of sit by the wayside and whatever comes this day I make happen, but.

You're planning ahead

Adam Gragg: and making it happen.

So I'll really put you on the spot now. What's, what's a habit that you'd like to break professionally? That's not leading you. If you cut it out, it's not leading you to where you want to be when you're 85.

Adam Lutes: Professionally you know, it's really easy just to want to continue to work, [00:21:00] you know, just sticking around, staying late and almost making that a too much a priority.

I don't want it to be. You know, I I was talking to a gentleman last week and he's basically like, I, I lost the ability to have relationships because I worked. And my relationships were work. Yeah. And I was like, wow, that's a hard perspective. And I could see myself going there if I really let myself go and let work consume my life.

Adam Gragg: And knowing the things that you can vote. Well, it's even that a lot of times, it's just really ties into this because coaching is future oriented and counseling often deals with the past and the problems.

Coaching is going to be, Hey, what's that bigger future where I want, where do I want to be in five years? Where do I want to be in 10 years? And how do we get really clear on what it is? Get very clear and then focus on it consistently. Cause that's something that I want and we forget. So, and if you get really clear and people don't set big enough goals, I can't emphasize enough how important it is when you have a vision.

for your future, that you're [00:22:00] idealistic, that you look really idealistic. It's realistic, yet it's idealistic. It's not unrealistic. It's not, unrealistic would be you're four, I mean, you're five foot seven, and then, you know, and you want in five years to be six foot one. That's just not going to happen, right?

Or you're five, I mean, there's unrealistic goals that just aren't going to happen. You know, you have red hair and you want to have brown hair. That's just not going to happen. You know, I mean, that could happen, actually. You You'd have to dye your hair, but so, but you're idealistic. And you're so much so that you're stretching yourself to start thinking, how can I, that doesn't seem like it's possible at all for me to be there.

So, so an example for that would be somebody, they are 50 pounds overweight and five years from now, they want to be, running in triathlons, and to never have to worry about their weight again. I mean, certainly normal stuff, but they're going to be at a place where they're in such good health. It's amazing how much health, how much better their health is.

Like it's shocking people. And that, that's, it's idealistic, [00:23:00] but it certainly is realistic. Yeah. Because they could get to that, but they know that, yeah, it would take a lot of work for me to get there. So, and this is why, diet programs and your exercise programs often because they get very idealistic, like 75 hard, or they get very, they get, they have this rigidity to them, yet they also actually impact people greatly.

Because if you have that kind of a goal, your brain starts kicking into saying, what do I need to eliminate to get to that place? You know, how do I get to that place? Cause I have this, this really big goal. And I have blessed to have some buddies that own businesses that set these really big lofty goals.

Like one of my buddy's goal for this year was to actually, he owns a business he wants to have. It was like 3 million more in revenue for the year. And so I'm like, that's pretty awesome. And it's a big, it really, he's done really cool stuff, but he's stretching himself and that's forcing him to eliminate everything that's getting in the way.

And then he's saying no to the, Snacks or what, I mean, if it's a diet thing, if it's a health goal, you're saying no, you're like, good is the enemy of the great. Good is the enemy of the great consistently. And so [00:24:00] you find a way. And what's so funny here? You got to tell me. Oh, yeah, this is good. All right.

Adam Lutes: So, on my diet It was, we had to have a small portion of, like a, a packet of, like, chili that they provided, and then a cup of vegetables. And that was basically it for lunch. So, I run off to work, my wife hands me a my lunchbox and says, I'm so sorry. I don't understand, but I'm running late. So I'm just going to get there.

I get there. I'm so sorry. I should give you the lunchbox. Yeah. Yep. She packed her lunch. I get, she did. She might've stopped after that. And so, when it came to lunchtime, I hadn't gotten into my lunchbox and I looked and I saw, and it was half. of an onion, half an onion. Oh my gosh. A little bit of ranch dressing.

And so I'm looking at this thing. I'm like, I am so hungry right now because I've had nothing to eat in the morning. And I, I have half an

Adam Gragg: onion and some ranch dressing. I have an onion

Adam Lutes: and I have [00:25:00] 20 minutes It's now to eat. So I ate that onion. No way. Yeah. I had our office. I know it wasn't our office. It was like one of the first times I had a career before I was born, but

Adam Gragg: she

Adam Lutes: packed an onion and I got home and she asked me, how was lunch?

Yeah. I said, I'm hurting. And she said, I had Wendy's. So that was, that was.

Adam Gragg: So you got to get me up to speed, like, what was the point of that? It was awesome. That was the diet? Yeah, that was the diet. So it was serious. It was a serious

Adam Lutes: diet and it did a lot of good work. So I mean, for that, the story, it's like, you're so goal oriented.

My goal, I had a goal set weight and I wasn't going to compromise. And I knew if I had any bit of sugar, bread, carbs, or anything, that would set me back another week. Is onion like, does it

Adam Gragg: decrease your appetite or something? It was like heartburn.

Adam Lutes: It was like a red onion. It was like heartburn haven. It was It's

Adam Gragg: like, okay, all right.

Adam Lutes: Yeah. I could see that. I got done with it. The co worker looked over at me and he's like, You do an okay man and I'm just sweating and heartburns [00:26:00] happening. So, so

Adam Gragg: you, all right, so I'm going to, I'm going to do that. You committed, man. That would make it for sure. That reminds me of like red beets or whatever their onion diet.

That's a different one. But it also, I mean, it might be a number of different things. So coaching is future oriented, counseling often is focused on the past. So we're figuring out how we can get to this different place in your life. And when you, and when I talk to somebody who's interested in coaching, I mean, what I, one of the things I do is I love to do like free coaching sessions for people because it is inspiring to me.

It's letting go. It gives them a taste of the process. And I get to see how clear of a goal they can set and whether or not they're willing to do the stuff that's necessary. That's to let go of the stuff that's necessary to actually reach that goal. And so if they have this really clear goal, so I, I, what is something, well, I mean, the goal often, like I said, it's health, wealth, relationships, maybe by wealth, I mean, career, professionalism.

How are you going to, what are you going to do? You're going to start something new. How are you going to use your skills? I mean, that's a freedom you can have when you are learning to set the right goals and focus [00:27:00] and then, you Have these, eliminate all the distractions and the fluff. It's like, it saves you time and you work towards that best stuff in your life where you're going to make the most progress.

So what is just for you if you have something you're aiming at, what is it like a 90, a goal that you have that you want something more in your life? It's a very clear vision that you can see yourself involved in some way. What's the difference at it? Yeah, right there.

Adam Lutes: So, I'm thinking one thing I really want to progress in is my drumming and so, and online presence.

So one thing that I'd really like to just focus on is to be able just to set aside time work on my drumming and just record myself through the learning process. Cause I feel like I could really help benefit other people by doing that, but also just making the time to make myself better.

As a musician, it's a challenge myself in real time cataloging it and sending it out for people just to be open and in a way and [00:28:00] expose myself and all my flaws and it would continue just to make me better. Okay. Yeah. What is it that you love about drums? It's a really It's an art form that is very logical.

So when you show up to music, it has rhyme, logic, and reason that's all surrounding it, but you have a ton of freedom to express whatever you that you want to. So drumming for me allows me to do a bit of problem solving as well as expression, as well as just perform and to try and convey a message that hopefully people will identify with.

Adam Gragg: Very cool. And that's such a great self care, action, activity that you can engage in, and passion, he's got a lot of things there, so he, as if he's a client in this situation, we're figuring out how he can get there, and what steps he can take to get there, and him just even picturing himself, in his mind, getting [00:29:00] there in a year, let's say, or let's say five years, like in five years, ideally, What would your life be like when it comes to drums, ideally?

Adam Lutes: I want to so there's a guy Mike Johnston who does clinics, but it's like small private clinics. It may be eight to 12 people. And I, one of my goals in life is to be good enough. To say that I want to go to his clinic and I would like to just go and it's for His in quote intermediate which to me is high level drumming to expert level drumming And I don't feel like I'm anywhere close to that.

So that is my goal. So Maybe five years, but that's one thing in my life. Okay.

Adam Gragg: Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. All right. So there's a very specific thing. And then if it's going to be a coaching goal, then we're going to figure out how he can keep this at the forefront of his thinking and how he can make it a priority.

Like what makes us, there's a couple of [00:30:00] questions about this. So what makes that a, these, these are coaching questions here. So what is. So important about this to you, which I don't really, I don't know, like, what makes that so important to you? I'm not judging it. I'm really curious.

Adam Lutes: A part of it in a way kind of comes back to failure where the different bands that I've been at in have been either failures.

I've not necessarily identified with the music in or I've been kicked out. And. This is something where it's like, you know, I've not been a traditional person when it comes to drums, but I would like to go and achieve and be able to hit milestones and markers because it's all self learned is where I'm at.

Adam Gragg: Exactly. So

Adam Lutes: I would like to push myself to figure out how far can I really go.

Adam Gragg: That is so cool. And it is something that he has to do on his own. Yeah. Because only he can actually motivate himself to do this in practice, and there's really a lot of intrinsic benefit that is only something you can articulate, which you're sharing, [00:31:00] that it has this feel to it that you want.

It's self improvement. Oh, yeah. It's big time self improvement. Yeah. And it's not going to resonate with everybody. So everybody has their own unique goals. So I think in their own unique things they want to work on. And so you can see this future orientation, it's vision orientation.

And then you can also get a feel for why this is not considered clinical. Because you're not telling me. That if you hired me as your coach, I'm a fellow traveler. I'm helping you get there, which is invaluable to people. If they put a price tag on it in a lot of cases, because if they come to me and I've had people say, you know, you make too much money, you know, why are you making so much money compared to I could have a counselor and I could pay a 25 copay and you're going to be all cash based and I'm going to pay up front and why would I want to do that?

And then, so, I mean, sometimes it's talking to them. Well, what's the outcome you want to see? Somebody's retiring and they're like, well, I would have the next 20 years to enjoy the money that I've earned and to have this level of health and to travel. And well, what's that worth to you? Cause you have somebody there that is helping you and [00:32:00] holding you accountable, which is that aspect to it.

It's, and that goes to the next. One, the next main difference, the fourth main difference, I'm going to go to in a second, but before that, hit the link. If you found this podcast helpful, just make sure you hit the link to shout out for yourself. These are seven small steps to a giant leap in your mental health.

It's about a transformation in your life. And it's a process that I take clients through. There's really three steps to the big picture process that we take people through and decide your legacy. One is creating a foundation, creating a filter, and then creating a great result, which is the Coffee beans, coffee filter, cup of coffee.

But those coffee beans, this is a training that we're getting ready to launch at the end of the month. That's one reason that Adam and I have been working a lot in his office together as we're producing Shatterproof Yourself, the full version. This is the light version that you get for free, and it's 20 minutes long.

I talk to you, and it is a worksheet, a four page worksheet. You fill it out and it can really have a huge impact and make a huge impact on your life. We talk about creating a great foundation, which is clarifying a vision in facing your [00:33:00] past, having a good, healthy self concept, self image, how you believe in yourself, loving yourself, learning how to do that, creating a great perspective, thinking about your thinking, dealing with your emotions, emotion regulation, really big deal.

Self care, which is oftentimes connected to living a balanced life. And then finally, the seventh step of creating this, of shatterproofing yourself and your future and your life, which is dealing with healthy relationships. And so you get a bunch of information on that as well.

So the fourth, final, difference between coaching and counseling that I want to highlight that makes it so much fun for me, which is the thing I love about coaching groups and I love about my clients is coaching is action oriented. People pay for accountability. It's not for anybody to just invest in this process to go and make big changes in their life.

So I have clients that can't really like, you know, I mean, they're not clients. They're people that are interested in coaching and if they can't see it. the benefit of taking consistent action and say that I'm, if [00:34:00] they're not willing to sit, step back and self reflect and to take some kind of actions.

And it really, the investment that they put in, the cash amount that they put in for coaching is based on them showing and proving to themselves that I'm willing to invest this amount of money in myself and be committed. That's why I have clients pay up front because that's a sign that they're committed to this process here and they're not going to turn from it because they already have invested their cash in the process.

So if. It's cat, if it's action oriented, they have skin in the game and they're allowing me, they're allowing our team to hold them accountable to ask them, well, what did you get done towards your goal in the last two weeks? And you get to report on that. And did they follow through or not?

You know, they're not getting the, in trouble. I'm not going to like spank them like on, you know, what's that old movie? Oh, the animal house. You know, master. May I please have it? It's not like that. I mean, it's the accountability is to themselves and they're putting, and they're allowing our team to hold them in the group and coaching groups to hold them accountable, which is [00:35:00] really exciting because it is a level of, if I'm going to come back to this group or come back to my session, I want to be able to say, here's what I've done.

And as you know, I mean, I like to make clients. and not make them, but I mean, clients challenge clients to do things in the moment in the session to actually make a change, which is really cool. So in fact I haven't incorporated that in the moment in legacy groups yet, but that is one of the things that I do in coaching clients one on one that I've done for a long, long time and seen some really cool things happen, but I'd love to do that in a group setting as well.

And of course I got to use my best judgment for that. But If you're going to make changes, you're going to take some action. And interesting thing about courage, which courage is one of the core values that decide your legacy, but courage, you don't feel courage. Like courage means that you feel insecure and you're doing something regardless of how you feel.

And then you develop confidence. People have this misunderstanding of confidence and they think, well, I should have more confidence in this area, or why am I not more confident and confidence comes after [00:36:00] that feeling of confidence comes after you've done that scary thing. And I don't know anybody that's done a tandem skydive that felt really comfortable the first time they jumped out of a plane, but I haven't met anyone afterwards that didn't feel energized having done it.

And that's an example of how confidence comes after you've done it. It doesn't mean the second and third and fourth, you're still not going to be scared. You probably are, but it's a little more confidence because you've done it before and you have landed before and you've seen the process. So I would imagine that it gets easier.

I've only done one myself, but I would imagine that you get more and more confidence and then you could end up getting a class A license, which means 25 jumps. I mean, that's the way it's going to actually work. So courage means. that you're doing stuff that you're not comfortable with. Expectations that I have for clients relate to this action orientation.

So if I'm going to engage with somebody, I want to know that they have a clear outcome, that they're willing to put out there and really clarify in the first couple of sessions. At the [00:37:00] beginning, even before they sign on, which is a coaching agreement with someone signing on for a certain period of time, six months, is the minimum when I work with clients is they're in most cases, I do some corporate stuff, which is less.

And I have certain special situations where I work with clients for less than six months, but most of the time it's six months and they got a big vision. I mean, this is something that they want to make a real amount of a significant amount of success in that area. They have to have a willingness to self reflect and to be honest with themselves.

That's something cool. You just said about a change you could make is just being honest with yourself. That's a really big deal and being willing to be challenged. So someone being honest with them and you get that feel in. People involved in coaching groups have to have, I want, that's a prerequisite as I screen.

They're willing to have someone shoot straight with them and to not get defensive about it, but to see that they're, maybe you're not, maybe they're not completely accurate in the feedback they're giving you, but there might be some value to that. And let's first of all, look at them as someone who cares about me, not someone who wants to criticize me.

And then I also want people to be very aware of the significance of making changes. So if I ask somebody, I'd love to [00:38:00] ask this question too, like, what is the cost or how would it benefit you if you don't make the changes that you want to make? I'll ask you that question right now. So you mentioned a few changes you would want to make to have that life when you're 85 years old.

So what is the cost of not making those changes and putting more energy into those now? For you.

Adam Lutes: So what it would take for me to do it now to, to off, not the drumming necessarily. Right, right, right. But for pay off at 85.

Adam Gragg: Yeah. You mentioned the Yeah, yeah. So what's the cost of not making those changes?

With, you said some, some habits. Yeah. Not right. With the eating stuff or whatever.

Adam Lutes: You said this where, how many people overweight. Have a long life, you know, I think that was something that I was like, oh, wow, like, technically I am overweight. And it's a little funky situation for how big of a dude I am, but it's like, you know, if I don't take the initiative to really make myself physically strong, have energy.

Go out and do things and take initiative and make the intentional Hey, [00:39:00] I'm, I may not eat this now or have smaller portions or what different, you know, I the cost for me right now won't be much other than, you know, I get to do my thing. But then I'll look back and it's like, I could end up in the long run costing a couple more 5, 10, 20 years off my life.

Or maybe my goal could be 85, but what if I ended up living to 100? Having great grandkids or great, great grandkids. How much more experienced life and joy could I have had if I made that decision now?

Adam Gragg: So how does it feel to say that?

Adam Lutes: So it's, it's encouraging. Yeah. And you know, I'm, I'm. Does it make you want to change more?

It's a little bit, a little bit more change. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's energizing.

Adam Gragg: That is energizing. You know, I had, I had a friend tell me, and that's what Adam's referencing right here, is a friend who is a physician that was just asking me like, how many obese 70 year olds do you see? And it was like, hmm, okay.

I don't know if I see any obese 70 years old. And he was making a point that of [00:40:00] how damaging being, and you're not by any means obese by any stretch of the imagination, but it was getting me to think about the impact that you're, that really has on people's lives. It's kind of like how many, Chain smokers do you see at 85?

Like you got these rare people and everything, you got Farmer Bill who ate a pound of bacon and smoked two packs of cigarettes a day. I mean, I've never met that dude and I'm sure he exists, but he's definitely an outlier. And it's definitely not the role model you want to follow to live a long life to 95.

So, I mean, I got a great uncle who, not a great, I got a first, I got my dad's first cousin. He's 94. He's thin. And I was asking him about some of his secrets and, you know, he play, he's very active. They have a great social life. And I was kind of shocked when he told me that him and his wife, who they've been married over 50 years, that they have two glasses of red wine an evening.

Cause Stan's super healthy. And he was like, yeah, it relaxes you. And it's the, and I'm like, okay. He said he read a Reader's Digest article. And, but he, I mean, he he's super healthy. Like, I mean, I'm telling you [00:41:00] now my dad's super healthy too at 85, but he does not drink barely. He does not drink very much at all.

So, I mean, like that's been my role model. He's always, I grew up with him just. Pretty much telling me like, you know, it's a bad deal to stay away from alcohol kind of thing, you know, and he drinks some wine now every on occasion, but it's not very often. It's definitely not a regular thing, but so, you know, you never know what you're gonna get.

So you don't want to be legalistic with this stuff, but let's go ahead and review. And I want to think about what you can apply from today. So the. Four big differences between coaching and counseling that I want to highlight is, is a coach is a partner, not an expert, all right? So coaching is about thriving, not just surviving, not just getting back to the baseline.

It's not about having a big problem being fixed. You're not broken. They're not trying to fix you. Coaches know that you already have what you need. They're going to ask you the questions and they're going to see the potential in you more than you see in yourself, which is really an exciting part about my job.

When I get to engage people in groups and companies, I get to see their potential. And I do have that orientation. That's why I'm really bad at boundaries sometimes. Cause I [00:42:00] see that so many people I want to help, you know, it's really hard to say, no, I still struggle with that. Have to do it quite a bit, but I still struggle with it.

Coaching is future oriented, so it's not focusing on the past, although that may be a part of it, because getting really clear on why you function the way you do today is a part of the coaching that I do with clients, because I want them to know how it's impacting them today, so they can let go of it and work past it, but it's future oriented, that's the future focus we have.

Coaching is action oriented, it is not passive. And I'm not saying, Counseling is passive. I'm saying that action is much more of a priority, that accountability, that coming back. And you know, you got the skin in the game because you put the cash up. This is not an insurance type medical service. It's a lot more than just, okay, showing up for a meeting and, I have the accountability to myself that if someone hires me as a coach, well, that outcome is at the forefront.

And we got to look at that and reflect on that consistently. And that's how we know we've made progress. I don't want someone after working with me for six months to say, it did not be able to articulate clearly how have you made [00:43:00] progress here and be able to measure that. And in counseling, you know, some of the issues can be longstanding and it may be a lot more difficult to measure.

And I'm not saying that's not a beneficial service. It's just a different service. So what insight did you gain? today. Oh yeah. What'd you want to say? Oh yeah. Cause it's

Adam Lutes: almost like, you know, you can gain a lot of education, a lot of knowledge and insight through counseling, kind of what you're saying, but you may not necessarily learn how to apply that or gain the action.

And the

Adam Gragg: application is the big, big priority in coaching versus counseling. It's not the same. It's a different type. Like I said, I would do. I will do coaching in conjunction. Someone else will see, one of my clients see a therapist while they see me. There's also some nuance in everything.

So I'm not trying to overly simplify this whole thing, but I want you to understand the difference. So, you know, your approach. And if you're a mental health professional listening, like there's a different orientation. I think it's so much fun to have a coaching orientation towards everything that I do professionally.

And I'm still a licensed mental health professional. So it's not like I can't intermix this in doing clinical work. I absolutely can. But it's not, I [00:44:00] mean, clinical work is clinical work. You have to have a diagnosable mental health, medical necessity in order to provide that. And that's a crucial thing.

So someone can come to me coaching wise and they don't have a clinical issue, you know, it's not like they, and I can even, you know, executive coaching is very much. I can have people that are very high functioning if they want to make bigger progress in their life in different ways. And a lot of it is perfec a lot of it is personal.

Their relationships in areas of their life. So what insight did you gain from listening to this podcast today? So insight is 20 percent of making a life transformation, but action is 80%. Wow, that goes with coaching as well. So that'll show you my bias. And you know, an okay plan that you act on is a hundred times better than a great plan that you perfectionize, which I don't even think that's a word, but I'm going to make that up.

You perfectionize and procrastinate on that thing. So what resonates with you most today? By the end of the day, I want you to act to take an emotional risk based on some insight that you gained from this podcast today. If you want it to stick, talk about a concept you learned today or [00:45:00] a tool and talk about it and teach it to someone else.

Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. He's the man. You can call him and talk to him. How can somebody reach you if they have questions for you, Adam?

Adam Lutes: Oh you can email me at lloid, L L O I D, at decideyourlegacy.

com. They want drumming tips. Yeah. I mean. There you go. Yeah. Just keyword drums and we can talk for hours.

Adam Gragg: There you go. Well, he's the man, so it's great to have a team member, like minded, big plans, big things going on.

So anything encouraging you can share with Adam as well as myself, any feedback, we'd love it. And you know, one ask that I have for you today is if you find, if you found Decide Your Legacy helpful, subscribe to the podcast, give us a rating and review, somewhere, Apple, Spotify. You can also just, if you want, you can go on to Google.

Google and give us a review as a Google on our Google page business. So I want to sign off the way I do always. So making your mission to live life now that you want to be remembered for 10 years after you're gone, you decide your legacy. No one else. I appreciate you greatly and I'll see you next [00:46:00] time.