So I hear from company leaders often that they get frustrated with

employees who are not willing to try something new. And

they see this potential in the employee, but they drag their feet, they

second guess, they doubt, and it

holds their employees back. So when you do something

new, you're letting go of control. You know, you're trying something, you're

exercising a strength that you don't even know you have. It's laying dormant.

And as I was thinking about this topic and just what a big difference it

makes when you try, you let go of the outcome and you actually explore. And

then you see after you do it that all these great things can come out

of it. That's very

exciting. And it really is what a leader helps people to do. And we're all

leaders. I mean, we all have influence in certain ways. So as I was thinking

about just that concept of change and the fear of change, it reminded me

of somebody that I know very well. Her name's Erica, and she's a

guest today and she's a travel expert who's been all over the world

and helps people explore and expand and do

new things. And so she's going to share with us today how to build confidence

through travel. So it's travel your way to self confidence.

And she. I'm going to let her introduce herself in a second here, but she's

got a whole bunch of stuff that she can share with you and it's going

to relate to this topic with your employees, with your team, with

change in general. And so by the end of this podcast episode,

Decide youe Legacy podcast episode, you're going to

see and be inspired to see the value of trying something new,

trying something different, and stretching yourself and being be

willing to actually explore some areas where you may not

have even thought that's an opportunity for growth in that specific

situation.

Facing a fear, doing something new, that's where it's at. So I'm Adam

Gragg. This is the Decide youe Legacy podcast. I'm your host and

I'm a corporate coach. One on one coach. I've been a family

therapist for 25, 26 years. My

passion, the purpose of Decide youe Legacy is helping

organizations, businesses and people live

courageously. And the guest we have on today, she's somebody that I've

seen firsthand take really bold steps to do things that a lot of

people wouldn't actually do. And, and her stories today are going to really be inspiring

to you. So I'm going to go ahead and introduce Erica. She's a conde

Nast top travel expert. She's been in the travel industry for, I think, close

to 30 years. But let me introduce her. Give her a chance. So you tell

us about yourself, Erica, and your business and things that you

think the audience would like to know. Thank you. Thank you so

much, Adam. I am thrilled to be here in the Decide youe Legacy

podcast. And as Adam mentioned, my name is Erica

Grag. What he might have not mentioned is that I am Adam's sister.

So he has had a firsthand opportunity to watch

me as I've overcome my fears and gained my own

confidence through travel. I am the co

owner and founder of two travel businesses. One is called

Escape to Shape Adventures and Wellness, where I

lead small group travel experiences around the

world to authentically engage and explore a culture

while never compromising on comfort and on staying

healthy along the way. And the second is called Escape

Artists Travel. And that is a team of travel

advisors that I oversee and we curate

bespoke travel adventures for solo

travelers, small groups, couples, honeymoons, multi gens, you name

it, to anywhere in the world and even to sports space.

The space. Well, you're gonna. Yes. Tell us that's the next frontier of

travel these days. Oh, my. So have you planned any of those trips yet?

I haven't. Although I would love to because they come with like a 3 to

8 million dollar price tag. But there are companies that are

already starting to take take it reservations. But

I have not been fortunate enough to book one yet. But I could if someone

wants to. Okay, that's pretty cool. So. Yeah, it is.

But I do know there are a lot of really exotic places that you wouldn't

have thought of that you have booked travel and we can talk about some of

that today. So my. I struggle with change. It. It is

the fear of the unknown. I mean, what could happen that could go

wrong? How can I be hurting? How can I experience something that

I'm not prepared for? And I'm not the only

person, you know, comfort doing things new. I had a new thing

this week which was employing my daughter, and that's the first

ever thing. And so there's been some anxiety with that. Like

I don't want to be. I don't want to

be the. And I'm not the direct supervisor, which is really great

because I think that could cause some challenges. But it was that risk to go

ahead and say yes that made. And I believe. I don't know what the outcome's

going to be, but I believe it's positive leaning on that. So we Want to

make intentional changes that

are and they will make a big difference in the long run.

It's a long term game. So we're going to go ahead and break this into

three different sections. I'm going to ask questions to my sister, starting off with

some of her beginnings and how it's impacted her confidence. And

then I'm going to share something, how it relates to me as

we go and I'll just jump on, jump on in.

So my fear of change. But what's the fear that people have

about travel? All about Erica. I think it

has a lot to do with control, it has a lot to do with routine

and it has a lot to do with the fear of unknown.

And maybe the third one, the fear of the unknown is

perhaps the most profound of all of those. I think

anytime it's the most profound. But it's also that

moment where travel really can change

you and transcend, you know, transform you. Anytime

we do something that's outside of our comfort zone, anytime we surprise

ourselves, that's really where the, the magic happens. That's

where the growth happens and that's where the self confidence is built.

So I would say that for most

people, we live with a sense of

wanting to understand our environment at all times and

control that. So the moment that you introduce the aspect

of travel, you're shaking that up a bit. So are you

saying that the bigger the fear, the more the growth opportunity?

I personally believe that and I have seen that in myself as well.

Okay, so did you always feel confident with travel?

You know what, I didn't actually, as you know, we didn't grow

up going to exotic locations around the world. And it wasn't

until I started to get my, you know, get my feet

wet and visit other parts of the world that were so

incredibly different than the places that the place I come

from that I started to open my eyes to

how similar we all are around the world. And yet how our

differences sometimes can be

expanded when from, from afar, until you get to know

another culture, you realize how similar you are. But the differences can seem so

huge and so profound from far away. And it wasn't until

I started to get that travel bug that I

realized that there was so much more to the world out there and

there was such a better version of myself that I

could explore as well through witnessing myself in other

cultures and in other countries. So you

know, it even something as simple as a

fear of flying, which is a very deep seated sea fear

for many people, for myself included, you have still to this,

that I have, I still have a fear of flying to this day.

Travel a year, oh my gosh, I take. I mean, within a month,

I sometimes take 18 flights. I mean, I want.

I'm on a plane a lot. How often do you cancel a flight because of

your fear? I only cancel a flight

because of weather. Typically if I can

see that it's really bad weather, that then I will cancel it. And that

happens maybe like once a year.

Yeah, once a year. And again it comes back to that control thing again

because do I really think that we're going to drop out of the sky from

bad weather? No, but I just don't like the feeling of that. It

really triggers a fear in me. But I will say

that I still get on a plane and I still go

because I really, really love where I arrive

to. And I would never want to take away

that sense of exploration, that sense of discovery,

that element of surprise. I'm always feeding my own

curiosity through my love of travel. So

my fear of flying is outweighed by

my probably, I guess you could say fomo fear of missing out,

of getting to this other place. But I think it's an example of,

you know, I had to, I had to get over that fear somewhat

to be able to do what I'm doing. But it doesn't mean that the fear

is gone. It just means that I'm. I'm bigger than the fear. And that has

given me, I can, I can out. I can,

I can outwit the fear, let's say. And that has given me a lot of

confidence. So, okay, well, this. Do

you always kind of keep in the back your mind that you could cancel the

flight, though you have an exit plan? Less

and less, but I guess it's always kind of there.

But less and less do I have that. I

have, I have discovered some apps that have really

helped me to navigate my fear of flying in terms

of giving me access. I feel that knowledge is power.

So there's a few apps that are out there that I'm happy to share with

anyone who's interested that you can subscribe to and you

can put in your starting flight and your ending flight and the airline, and

it will tell you the perceived, like the projected route

and how much travel, how much turbulence to expect. Because I'm

not. Fear of. My fear of flying is not flying itself. It's actually

turbulence because it triggers a panic reaction in me. And

so I have found that knowing when to expect the

turbulence really helps me to be able to

relax through it. So, you know, just like there's things that

you can do at home to help gain confidence with traveling

to a foreign country. This, these apps help me to gain

confidence in. And comfort when I'm on the plane. Okay. Because you know you're going

to have 10 minutes of turbulence and you're. Exactly. And you know it's not

permanent. Exactly. And I says, you know what, this

turbulence that's so horrible, it's going to be the next four hours of the flight.

Yeah. I mean, that is not a great feeling for me. Right. Like, you know,

to know that that's going to happen. And I would probably say that,

you know, I would. I've gotten much better at it, but I would

probably be. If someone, if I saw on the app that the whole flight is

going to be turbulent, I might not go on that. Is that the flight you

had from Milan? Did you cancel that because of weather? Because we were going to

record this last week? No, I did not cancel that. The

airline canceled it. I had nothing to do with that. Their plane had been grounded

due to a part delay. So I did not

cancel that. So when can you think of an early moment when you realize like,

this travel stuff is helping me to grow.

Grow in my confidence, growing as a person? Yes. I would

probably say the first time that I really

felt it was when I was in Morocco for

the first time, which would be almost 18 years

ago. And Marrakesh at that time

was, and it still is, incredibly exotic, but at that time even

more so. And I was very scared.

Not that I thought that I was. Anything was going to happen to me. I

was just scared to venture out by myself into the souks, which are the

markets. I was scared to go anywhere by myself. So I always had to

have my now husband with me or a guide with

me or somebody with me, because I was definitely like a

deer in the headlights when I got into this exotic marketplace, which is

really the center of the Moroccan culture are these markets.

And we spent two months there. And by like

the seventh or the sixth or seventh week, I remember having a

very eye opening experience of, wow, this isn't actually scary. And

I'm completely. I'm okay here. I can figure this

out. Even if I don't speak the language and if I don't, you

know, this is so foreign to me. And that was very eye opening

because I accomplished something. I overcame my fear.

I became bigger than my fear. And to this day, Morocco

is one of my favorite places in the whole entire world. And I

consider Marrakesh A second home. It's like whenever I

arrive there, I feel like I have come home. So

it really was an incredible experience for me. And

I. I remember that person who was just, you

know, was being ripped off in the marketplace and couldn't make a

decision, didn't know what to do. You know, I was very much

afraid, and I overcame that. And how is that connected to the fact that you

had a huge breakthrough in Marrakesh? Because what. What if that huge breakthrough was in,

you know, another country? It was in Antarctica on a cruise, or

it could have. It could have been. I mean, anywhere you go, because you realize

you can handle it, right? It just. For me, it happened to be

Morocco, Marrakesh. And I think it's. That was so

incredibly different. Like, Europe has a lot of similarities to

our life in North America. So being in Italy

or being in Spain didn't feel as exotic to me personally, which doesn't

mean that it wouldn't feel very exotic to somebody else. But Marash,

was that a trip that I felt like it

was. When I got there, it was very exotic. And I was like, wow.

Like, I've never seen anything like that before. Um, and so that was a

pivotal point for me. You had a breakthrough there. I had a breakthrough

there. Through there. I definitely had a breakthrough there. And because of that breakthrough,

I was. My mind opened up to traveling, to

further traveling, deeper, traveling to far more exotic locations.

And that is something that, for me, has been very.

Has been tremendously rewarding and has

increased my confidence, increased my growth, increased my

transformation as a human. So what's your advice or encouragement to

somebody who is afraid and even has an idea that

maybe they've heard bad things about travel and everything, but they, for some

reason have this mindset that it's going to go bad. What's your advice? I

would say to start small, to start local.

Maybe explore a nearby city or town that you hadn't thought about

exploring before. Just that. Just to kind of not go.

You don't have to go so far in order to get incredible

transformation or growth. So maybe it's something as

trying a new city that's within driving distance to you or

going to. Going to restaurants to try new cuisine,

cuisine that you might not have thought of. I actually found that

to be really inspiring for myself. I never had thought about going

to Myanmar until I ate at a Burmese

restaurant, you know, so. And I think that that could be a

nice way to whet your appetite, so to

speak, literally and figuratively. Other ways to

do it could be as simple as maybe you've never tried public transportation

in your own hometown, but you know, get on the subway or get on

the metro or get on a bus. Do something that's going to take you out

of your comfort zone, but still keep you close enough to home to

where you feel safe. Still, I

think nowadays we live in a world where there are so many cultural

festivals or events that are taking place. Perhaps go to one

of those. Maybe you go to eat dinner by yourself

somewhere or go any lunch by yourself. You know, solo. Dining

solo is something that some people never have done in their life and it can

become an element of travel and do it closer to home.

Nowadays on like YouTube or online, you can

find a dance class that you could download. Like maybe you're going to take

Bollywood dancing or salsa dancing and you don't want to go. They don't

offer it in your hometown, but you could do it online. And that

gets you used to a new culture or

even. Yeah. Or simple things like reading a travel

memoir or watching a travel documentary or watching a movie that's

in a different language with subtitles. These are little things that you

could do that could actually make a huge

difference because they might inspire you to want to go further.

They'll challenge you mentally, they'll challenge your

comfort zone. And again, coming back to that idea that

do something different to like surprise yourself. It's amazing.

Something you. You advise people to start doing now, who are

you're planning trips for to start doing some things that are uncomfortable in a

sense? Absolutely. No, I have some clients who are very well

traveled, who have traveled all the time. So this is the stuff they do anyways.

They're always eating at an Indian rest. They don't need me to tell them. But

there are a lot of clients that I get that are new to travel

and just starting to get their feet wet. And they're

curious, so that's why they've reached out to me. But they're not comfortable yet.

So these would be some of the things that I would advise them to do

to help, you know, to pique their.

Continue to pique their curiosity, but to help them to still feel comfortable.

Yeah, that's really cool. Because, you know, as I think about this, for somebody who's

afraid of change in general, some of the advice that

I would get that I would give is to

just admit that you're afraid. Admit it. I mean, I think I

went most of my life to not admit that I had many problems,

and at least verbally, because my Fear was to expose that

and then it be seen as weakness. And even now I don't want to admit,

like, oh, that's uncomfortable for me. I'll just do it. I'll eat anything. You know,

I'll eat anything. I'll

do whatever. But that is not reality. And plus, it's a

phony. And you're being able to admit that you're afraid of

flying, afraid of travel, afraid of hiring your daughter, afraid of

somebody not liking you. I mean, you can

admit that. Doesn't mean you're going to be consumed by it. So that's kind of

on the same line of reasoning right here. Like, do something and then

even admit that you are afraid to eat it, but eat it anyway. Yeah, it's

got to be something. So, little side note here, since you are my sister,

anything that you would like to share that would be

interesting for the audience to know about how you treated me as a child?

Ah, it's the other way around.

Even though I am the older sister, Adam was always bigger than me.

So therefore he got away with, you know,

being the big brother. And possibly not. He was

not a bully to me, but he definitely, you know, one time he bit

me. He doesn't remember this, but I was like, probably.

I don't have any remembrance of that event at all.

Yeah, I was like 17 and I bit you. No, that's. No, no, that's

true. He was probably like maybe 13 or something

or. No way. I was like three.

I have no recollection. I would not have bit you when I was 13.

There is no way. Okay. At one point he bit me and he did like

to have parties. And I was like such a goody two shoes that I was

like, gonna go try. I want to tattletail on him. You

expose me, your friends. My sister was a

senior when I was a freshman in high school. Okay. And she was like a

popular senior. And I thought that was really cool. And so she exposed me to

all these seniors. That's true. Were not

necessarily the best people for a freshman to be hanging out with. They

were good. I'm not saying they're. But

no, they were guys who were obviously older than me. And I was like, you

know, I'll hang out with you guys. But anyway. But they were. But

actually, the truth of the matter is, is that actually you were

a born leader even then. Even though, you know,

yes, as a freshman, you wanted to be like the cool, the freshman

brother of the senior. But over the years, you

actually, you were. You became very cool in Your own. Right. You didn't need me.

Well, hey, I appreciate that. So let's go into the second. You're welcome. So

this is how you've grown through travel, challenges that you

faced. And really, for anybody, how they've grown through change. So what's

something travel has taught you that nothing else could have?

Oh, gosh. Well, I know I've mentioned

it's. It's been the biggest

example of stepping out of my comfort zone, not not only because of the

flying, but just because, you know, you are a complete fish out of water when

you travel and you go to these other cultures, from the language to the

food to the customs. So stepping out of my comfort

zone has been a huge

gift that travel has helped me, has. Has brought to me.

I would also say that. And this has been very important to me, the cultural

awareness, just recognizing how.

How lucky we are in certain ways, but also

how beautiful other cultures are. Especially, like,

how, like, I look at cultures like Cambodia or India and

how they take care of their elders. We don'. Have that as much here in

the United States. So cultural awareness from the

differences, the strengths, the weaknesses of both our country and other

countries has become much more evident to me. So are you saying you want mom

and dad to live with you and Francesco? I'm not necessarily saying

that, but I actually would be so, so happy if we had, like, a

commune or a compound. So, yes, I would be more than happy to have

mom and dad come and live with us. Good. Good. Good luck with.

With keeping dad in line. So. Yeah, exactly.

That would be. You'd have to go into it with a lot of flexibility. I

would love, though, if they want to come live here with me, I would love

that. That's amazing because it is that way in a lot of cultures. Yeah. And

I. And it's not that way in the U.S. it's not naturally.

Yeah. You can't learn. It's. You can't learn things, basically, unless you

actually experience it and you see the different cultures and you realize you have all

these. These. These assumptions, and then you're there and, you know,

you realize a lot of those assumptions probably aren't even true, I would imagine. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. Like, what you read and what is that,

what you actually experience. I have found to be completely two different

things. So that has been incredible. It's a perspective

shift, you know, and it's. That's been really important to me.

Really an incredible gift. So I have found that there's

so much expansiveness that comes from Travel. So some people come

back from a trip, a vacation, let's say, and they're rejuvenated

and they feel young and they have ideas and they just feel

energized and they seem energized. And some people I've seen come back from

vacations and feel drained, like. And I'm thinking, well, why

schedule that vacation? I mean, it's both. I'm not saying, I'm not saying with you.

I'm just saying just hearing. Oh, I know, yeah. What is,

what is that all about? I mean, I think

that that has more to do with,

I mean, I don't know, being drained after your vacation to

me signifies that maybe you overbooked your vacation,

that maybe you did not leave room for the spontaneity that can come

from travel that you might have planned. And I have seen families,

particularly with, you know, teen or younger children,

they want to take their children to Europe for the first time. And what do

they do? They plan two activities a day, a lunch

and a dinner. And it's just too much. It's like you need to

leave some time in your itinerary for

spontaneity, for relaxation, to recharge, to take a

nap, to balance out the holiday

so that it's not just about going, going, going as much as everyone loves

to go. I think that there does come a point where you just kind of

need to take a break. So personally, if I, if I see someone

who comes home that's completely destroyed from their holiday, I

think that they probably tried to do too much in too little of a time.

Now, of course, I don't know that for sure, but that would be what I

would guess that I would attribute it to. And so what? Because they look at

the itinerary and you've planned a number of trips for me and Emerson

personally. And I remember seeing, when we went to, to, to

Italy, I looked at our schedule in Rome and I remember thinking, that's it. We're

going to what, you're going to the Coliseum in the morning and then we're

going like going to this and like that's it. The Vatican, right? Yeah. You

know, it's all. I'm really curious. Yeah, like the vet. Yeah. But in one day.

Okay. But me not knowing and having been to Roman at all, it makes, it

makes sense. But what do people miss out on when they jam pack their schedule

with too much? I think they miss out on all of the

magical moments that can happen when you don't have a plan,

such as wander and this is actually a great way to build confidence when you're

traveling as well. Wandering through a neighborhood and allowing yourself to

get lost a little bit. You know, use your chat, your GPS

and like find your way. Stopping at a cafe

that looks really enticing or that you're. That looks charming, or

going into a flower shop or stopping to like, letting,

letting the day take. Seeing where the day will take you.

If you don't leave room on your itinerary for that, often

you miss out because you're just scheduled schedule scheduled and you never really

get you be. That's what defines a tourist and a traveler.

To me, a tourist is someone who's just checking things off their list.

A traveler who is someone who has a few things that are like

anchors to their itinerary. Things they really know they want to see and they want

to do. But then they allow room for the

trip to just sort of take on its own life as well. So

maybe wandering, maybe

taking a nap. Yes, taking a nap. I mean, you know,

luxury reading a book. I mean, going to the spa

maybe, you know, having a long leisurely meal rather

than having it like, especially if you go to Europe, you see that local

Europeans, they have long leisurely lunches, they have long

late dinners. Like a lot of times, as in our

culture, we're so used to in America that like, hey, we eat for

efficiency and then we go and you know, why not

go. Go European and do it like the Europeans for a few

meals at least and really live like a local. I think it's such a gift

to allow yourself the opportunity to live like a local from

time to time on your tr. In your travels. So is there any

strategy you'd give to people if they wanted to make the most. The most of

that free time like these? Well, I mean,

I would say do something that you love so during that

free time, but listen to your body as well. So, you know, I have a

wellness business as well, so a travel wellness. So I think it' really important

that we listen to our body when we're traveling, especially when we're hopping time

zones, because jet lag is a real thing. So

I would say that I can give you some ideas of things to do,

but really ultimately it should come down to what you

feel like doing. Maybe it's something that caught your eye. Like there was a cooking

class that's taking place or a dance class or a

movie that they're showing in a park in Paris

and you didn't have, you didn't have that on their Your schedule, but you allowed

some time for these things so that you can do them. Or, you know,

you love coffee, you want to sit and have a go into a cafe, or

you, you know, you love a museum that you didn't plan

to go to and you'd walk past it, you're seeing that. You know, as I

look back on these trips you guys have planned for us, I am so grateful

that the agenda was set for me and it wasn't so jam packed because when

we went to London and Great Britain, we had free time when

we went, you did, you guys planned one to Chicago for me and went

to New York City and one and all, all of those things had so

much room for flexibility. And I saw love

to love that and having it done for me made such a difference

because I knew you knew where to eat, you knew where to go. And then

you got me great deal. You got me really great discounts on great

hotels. That's true, that's true. And I think, not that you would. Give that

to anybody, but it's a benefit of being your brother, I think.

Right. And we always try to get people, I mean, we do have access to

some special rates for I'm not every hotel, but for a lot of them. So.

And yours, your itineraries are a perfect example of you had

enough to anchor your itinerary. So like you were going to see the must

sees, you were going to see them in a authentic way, but you also

had some time to. I remember like one afternoon in Paris

that Emerson and I went shopping and just sat and had cappuccinos, you know, I

mean, like, like that wasn't on the itinerary, but we did that,

you know, so it's good to have some hours of free time.

So people on trips out here, just in general, people

don't like conflict. I mean, would you, would you say you're strong willed, Erica?

Oof. I mean, yes, I guess anyone has to be strong willed

in certain ways to get things done and accomplished. But I'm also,

I mean, I'm flexible though, so it's like especially. I'm not

strong willed when it comes to. I guess it depends on what it is,

let's put it that way. So what is it

when people are on a trip and there might be some conflict? How have

you seen people grow through conflict? Oh, I mean,

I don't. Oh, okay, I see what you're saying. Like, you mean on an escape

to shape trip if I've seen conflict or. Yeah, or with their family and

they Are around. I mean, so much. And how they have. Actually,

they don't see them all the time in that setting where they're all together. I

mean, I haven't been in those situations because I'm not on the trip with the

families that are doing these trips, so. But I would say

that one thing, that there's two things that I have found that families

on trips or couples will fight about. One is

not having anything planned, and the second is having too much

planned. And I know that sounds kind of crazy, but I hear this

constantly. They're like, okay, we need to have some kind of plan. We can't

just wing it the whole entire time. Like, whether it's the car that picks us

up from the airport and like a meal every day or an

activity. One activity a day. Some people

really need that so that their children have an

itinerary or that they. The couple has something to look forward

to together. Um, and then on the. It kind of ties

into what we were saying earlier. But on the converse of that is you also

need to have some downtime. So it's a fine

balance. And I can. I have been lucky to strike it for

people, typically by listening to what my clients

have to say to me and hearing that, okay, these people need

more activity, but still some downtime. Or these people need. No,

like just a few things. And you know, so. But those have.

Honestly, the two things that I see families and couples fighting

about is not enough planned or too much planned. And I see people,

when it comes to change, they're afraid that they're gonna. Some.

Well, maybe with travel, they're gonna get stuck somewhere at an airport

or Right. Happen with the reservations or in. Right.

Change in general. They're. They're gonna have a meltdown or they're gonna.

Or they're gonna. So. And even that conflict thing. So how can people

grow through those experiences? And how is that a part of building confidence? Well,

I think that it definitely helps build your confidence if you have to problem

solve in real time, which is what you have to do if your flight's delayed

or canceled. You have to navigate this

on your own with the airline, with the missed flight, with the language barrier, with

the lost luggage. All of that is things

that you have to problem solve in real time, which then will

help you to gain more confidence. Now, of course, as a

travel advisor, part of my job is to

help minimize the stress that that

puts on people. So, you know, if somebody. If I booked a flight for someone

and they missed their flight or their flight is Canceled. Like I'm the person who's

handling that. But not everybody has a me. So, you

know, that's where they have to do it themselves. And it may

seem so simple to some people, like, well, of course I have to

manage myself if I miss my flight or if I, if my luggage

is lost. But those are huge things. I mean, you're stressed out.

You're sometimes jet lagged and exhausted or stressed out

just getting to the airport and then your flight's canceled. I mean, and then

you have to navigate that. You have to, we have to give credit where

credit's due. It's a huge thing to have to navigate and it's a huge

accomplishment. So that would help build

confidence, I would imagine, because they realized they can get through it.

Exactly. You realize you could survive and make it work in

Marrakesh. It worked out. Exactly,

exactly. And you can, it can also look at it like some people travel with,

you know, I have some clients that are heading out to climb Mount

Kilimanjaro. I mean, they've never climbed

20,000ft before and they've never probably slept in

tents, you know, and imagine they chose to do

this, obviously, but this is a solo journey that they're

doing that I can only imagine is going to feel like a huge sense of

accomplishment and personal victory and increase their

self worth and their self confidence after they do it. But they probably are nervous

about it. You know, yeah, that's a big, that's a big deal.

So if somebody wants to

grow through challenges to, to me, one of the best

pieces of advice they want to grow through change is to allow themselves to

not just admit that they're afraid, but to feel afraid and to feel

uncomfortable and like to, to be frustrated. But if you allow yourself to feel

it, then you can actually work through it better. And know, for example, I,

I meet a lot of people. They want to have their lives set up to

a way to a point where they're not, they don't have any bothers anymore. Like

I don't want, you know, like, it's kind of this mentality that, you know, when

I have enough money, I'm not going to have problems or when I have

problems, when I have what you can put anything in there. When I,

when I, when I have this one part of, I learned this one aspect of

my job, then I'm not going to have any stress anymore. But if you think

that, no, I'm going to have the things that bother me, they're always going to

be there, but I am equipped to handle them. That's, that's more empowering

because then I've been through it before. There's times in my life I think I've

already been through different challenging things. This isn't nearly as big of a deal because

I've already gotten through it before. And I think that's what travel can do, change

can do to you. So, so last part is here. So

let. Now, there's a lot of myths about travel I believe

that people, people think of, and I have a lot of myths that I believe

and did believe. And I've had times where I've been just terrified of travel, terrified

of change in my life, and just wanting to avoid anything that resembled change.

So if, if you. So

to address some of these myths, like what, what kind of person this is going

to address? What kind of person makes the best travel companion? Erica?

Oh, I mean, somebody that you can be your authentic

self with, someone that you feel really comfortable being able to show,

you know, all sides of your personality to, but also someone

who's very respectful of space, very respectful

of not needing to have you by their side the whole time because

maybe you need, you're tired and you need to take a nap, or maybe you

have a certain interest that doesn't match theirs. So some. So

someone who can be a little bit independent.

The answer to this, though, really is very personal. Like I.

Because maybe somebody doesn't want somebody who's independent, maybe somebody who wants

someone who's by their side the whole entire time. So

I would definitely, I would definitely consider

having conversations about what your particular travel

style is with someone before you travel with them. For example,

do you want, do we, do you need to be planned the whole time? Do

you like to have some free time? What is your budget? I have

often found that people, travel partners

can sometimes one of the main things they can disagree on is budget,

because one has an idea in mind of what they can spend and the other

one can't spend that or wants to spend more than that. So these

are all valid qualities and valid

concerns. But it's good to have a conversation before

you set out on the trip so that you're not disappointed.

No one wants to feel like they have. I personally, I don't want to feel

like I have to babysit someone when I'm on a trip with them. So I

want them to have a certain level of. I mean, I babysit

people on trips all the time. Babysitting is the wrong word because they're

independent. You know, travelers who are you Know,

very capable of doing it on their own. But like, I think

that if I was looking for a travel partner, I would want someone who,

who has the same interests in me to a certain extent, but is also

comfortable enough to spend some time by themselves too. Okay,

and do you find. Are there any other myths that

people believe oftentimes that you hear as you talk to people getting ready to

explore, going on a trip and you know it's not true?

Yeah, it's true. Yeah. I think that the myths

that I've heard more often than not have to do with

the countries that they're traveling to more than

a myth about travel itself. You know, I

for one had a myth about India before I.

I had a preconceived notion about traveling to India that

everyone who goes to India gets sick and, you know, and you

hear like, oh, there's going to be poverty everywhere. And

the truth of the matter is, is that India is my most

favorite country that I've ever been to. I am

obsessed with India. I have now been, you know, some eight

times or something and I was scared

to death to go, but ended up going

and went and really immediately

fell in love. Knock on whatever my table's made out of.

I've never gotten sick. We've hosted Escape to Shapes there

multiple times. No one's ever gotten sick, you know, if you

know where to eat. And it's just like anywhere. I mean, I got sick at

a five star Michelin restaurant chef in New York City,

you know, in February. So it's not like it's

impossible to get sick anywhere. But, you know, okay, would I eat street food

in India? Absolutely not. But India is a

really multifaceted country full of contradictions

from the richest rich to the poorest poor and everything in between.

And it is absolutely, positively an incredible

country and culture to experience. And I was held

back for a large portion of my life because of

the fear and the myth that I had. Okay, caught on

to that. I had attacked. How do you overcome that? Well,

I had to leave, you had to go. I know, but. But what if somebody

is getting ready for a trip and, you know, they're believing all these things that

aren't true, how bad it's going to go or these people or this culture or

whatever. What do you advise them to do? To start breaking those myths before they

go on the journey? I. First of all, I would never

tell. I would ne. I never make the final choice for someone on where they're

going to go. So I would never force or not that I could ever. But

I would never coerce or try to convince someone to go to a country that

they don't feel comfortable going to. Because I just don't think that

if you're not feeling called to that country, then you

shouldn't. I'm not. I'm not here to sell you to go there because there's so

many other places to go in the world. Let's say, you know, they want to

go because you can kind of get a sense. Like, I know they really want

to do, like, they really want to go to Antarctica for some crazy reason,

but they're believing all. They're believing certain things about the trip.

Maybe, maybe the myth they're believing is, like, it's just really easy or whatever. It's

like, how can you get them to reality? Or they want to go on a

safari and they believe it's just this simple thing. I mean, how does somebody get

to unpack? And I like to say you're getting space from your thoughts and your

feelings so you can look at them accurately. But what do you do in your

industry. Industry to help them do that because, you know, they want to get there?

Yeah, that's. That's a very good question. I mean, I would

kind of go back to some of these baby steps that I mentioned earlier,

like, can you try. Can you watch a TV show or

read a book? And I often do give TV show recommendations or

podcast recommendations or book recommendations to my clients

or try the local cuisine. I do

think that it's really fun. I go back to that idea of, like, a dance

class. But it is a fun idea to take a virtual

dance class that no one's watching you and you can do it. And it

kind of gets you into the head space of having fun with that

culture, too. Or maybe it's a cooking class that's virtual

on that culture's cuisine. Something where you didn't have to

travel beyond the comfort of your own home, but you're being

exposed to the culture in little bits from afar.

I would say that if that's, like, your goal, let's say it was Antarctica,

or let's say it was India. Those would be very accessible

ways to start to become more

familiar and more comfortable with the journey that you are

so interested in taking but are fearful of taking. Start with something small.

So you mentioned that article. How long are you in that Drake's Passage?

Annette on the trip, 24 to 48 hours on

average. And Drake's Passage is either Drake

Lake, meaning that it's Crystal Clear, and you won't even feel a bump. Or it's

the Drake shake, which means that you are strapped into your

bed, like, you know, thrown all around. So that's why

you're strapped. Is that a myth? Like, you can't leave your room? That is not

a myth. That is not a myth. Okay. Why do

people want to go to Antarctica? Well, Antarctica is really

incredibly remote,

very incredibly exotic. Not in

the culture, but in the. The majestic beauty of

the icebergs. There's also. Antarctica is melting. So

there's this fear that Antarctica won't be what?

Antarctica. You know, it has been. Of course,

the penguins are a huge draw because you

do see these colonies of baby penguins and penguins. I

mean, the whales, the kayaking through the iceberg. It is

a. It's like a last frontier for a lot of people.

It's a part of the world that is so remote and so

untouched by mankind, thankfully,

that the experience that you have there is really unparalleled

when it comes to a natural experience, a nature

experience. You have not been to Antarctica yet? I have not been to Antarctica. I

planned many Antarcticas, and I would love to go to Antarctica, actually. You would love

to. Okay, so how many countries you've been to? I have been to

96 countries. And what's the last country that you

went to? That was the first time you had been to that country?

Oh, goodness. That is a really good question. The

last country I had been to. That was the first time I've been to that

country. Well, I just got back from a trip that was not that.

Oh, my gosh, Adam. That's a really good question.

The last country I've been to. That was the first time I've

been to that country. It's been a long time, actually.

A lot of repeat countries. I've been to a lot of repeat countries. I mean,

I'm headed to Rwanda in August, which is a repeat.

I am headed to Turkey. I'm headed to Greece.

I just got back from France, Croatia, Italy.

Yeah, I mean, I've been to. That's a really good question. I can't

answer that. But I can tell you some countries that I'm excited to go to

to add to my list. What are those? So that would be Australia,

New Zealand, Uzbekistan. I'd like to

go back to other parts of India that I haven't been to before.

Yeah, those are, like, my top four places right now. Yeah. Yeah. So

when you think about. And just kind of summarizing things here, when. For the

audience, like, when. When you think about making changes in your life.

You're. If you can see the benefit

and you can see that there's this possibility to let

go and let go of the myths, let go of things that are

perspectives that may not be accurate and you see how you can grow

even if you're miserable at times, like, even if you get stuck, even you get

lost. And those are. It's powerful

to know. To me, it's really encouraging to look back and say that

that experience, that was really challenging. I'm also very grateful for.

Yes, I agree. I'm really, I absolutely

agree. So. Yeah, yeah. So let me go ahead and summarize the

three points that I made about change. So admit you're afraid. Be willing to

say you're afraid. Be willing to feel what you're feeling and not hide from it.

So you're not going to take it out on everybody else. You're actually able to

admit it and then say to yourself, like, it's okay to feel this way right

now. It's okay. Okay to feel uncomfortable and then to feel like you're. You're going

to put some energy into letting go of the mess. So you're actually exposing yourself

to say, like it's, it may not be completely accurate. I'm willing to do it

anyway and see what the outcome might be afterwards. So. And if you found, if

you found this content helpful and confidence or growing your confidence is encouraging,

exciting to you and everything, check out Shadow for Yourself Light. It's a free mini

course that I have designed and it's seven small steps to a giant leap in

your mental health. And you go through that in the worksheet and fill in your

answers, you're going to find that helpful when it comes to making

changes because part of that addresses the emotion and they're like little two minute clips,

basically. So two minute clips, fill in the worksheet, addresses letting go of the emotion,

changing your perspective, letting go of like things that have happened that are bad in

the past, which I can imagine, Erica. Like someone has a bad trip or whatever,

a bad experience and they may be able to, they may want to hold on

to that. Right, right. That's where having somebody like

you can be helpful because you can help them see clearly that that's not actually

the accurate. Right on the whole thing. So.

Absolutely. So any parting, any kind of crazy travel experience

that we'd never learn about you unless you actually shared it right now that you

could share with the audience? Oh, well, I've already shared. I was like, afraid of

flying that I was afraid of India. But

I will. All I have to say is

that in all honesty, I have never regretted any

trip I've ever taken. That every single from the

smallest little road trip to the, you know, to

the, the three or five month journey, because I have been

on those before, they come with challenges. There's highs and there's

lows, but the highs absolutely outweigh the lows

100%. And I'm gonna quote two of my

favorite travel quotes. One is we travel

initially to lose ourselves and we travel next to find

ourselves. By Pico Iyer from why we Travel.

And I think that absolutely beautifully captures the transformative nature

of travel. And the second one is travel isn't

always pretty. It isn't always comfortable. Sometimes it hurts. It even

breaks your heart. But that's okay. The journey changes you. It

should change you. It leaves marks on your memory, on your consciousness, on

your heart and on your body. You take something with you,

hopefully you leave something good behind. By the late Anthony

Bourdain. And I think these two perfectly sum up

why I travel and why I hope that you will all travel

too. So I know how to reach you, Erica and I'm going to see you

on Saturday. Emerson and I for the first time in a while. How long has

it been? Because it's been a bit. Six months. Christmas? Yeah. Like the holidays?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay, so how can somebody reach you if they want to

use you as their tr. Use your business for, for. As a

resource? Yes, absolutely. So I have two websites. One

is

www.escapetoshape.com

completely spelled out. And the other is

www.escape artists with

an S travel.com. i'm also on Instagram

at Escape Artist Travel, at Erica Grag at

Escape to Shave. Okay. And then two things

you guys do is one is the travel agency agent service and also these

escapes at these really cool countries all over the place that you can go on

yourself. So there's no change in your life,

positive, long term change without taking action.

A lot of times people think insight's going to help them make change, but it's

taking action. You start taking action right away. So if you

learned something that you learned today that was inspiring, whether it's

challenging your mindsets, doing something new, taking a small step,

apply it, don't wait, like do something soon with it because

that's how you're really going to change and it'll make a big

difference because you know there your

legacy. That means the impact your life has on other people.

And deciding means that you're committing to something. You're committing

to doing something, eliminating other options. So you have all these things that come at

you, and you decide to go on this trip, you decide to commit,

and that means you're eliminating other options. That's how you make long term

positive change. So I want to close the way I always do. Live the life

today that you want to be remembered for 10 years after you're gone. You decide

your legacy, nobody else. I appreciate you greatly and

I'll see you next time.

It.