I talk to people frequently who own businesses

and lead teams and

they will often struggle with second

guessing and decision making and even being in a position that they never thought they

would actually be in. So they have this passion for starting a business

and then they end up in a situation where they say, to grow this

thing, I have to learn how to delegate, I have to learn how to lead

people. And it's very intimidating for them. And I've been

in that same situation, growing a business, it

at having situations where I can't do this on my own.

Just knowing I can't do this on my own. I don't know how many times

I've said that over the last five years. You know, I had, I started

Decide youe Legacy in 2012 and we were a team of five, went through

a setback, shrunk. Now it's been growing again. And

then I'm relearning some things that I think I was better at

in the past, but I've held on to some bad habits, doing it on

my own, learning to trust people again.

And that's been hard for me. And so today we're going to talk about

influence that lasts. So strategies to impact people, strategies

to grow your team, strategies to grow your business. Some things that you

wouldn't have thought of that impact me when I reflect on them

and that are going to be helpful to you. And by the end of this

episode, you're going to realize that you have a lot of influence.

Leadership opportunities abound, whether it's in your family,

on a holiday, with your family, with your friends. Leadership

is you leading somebody in a different direction towards their goals.

And we're going to talk today about these concepts

that you can apply right away. But first and foremost,

gear get in the mindset of saying that I can

relate to being a leader, even though I don't think I'm a leader. But there

are aspects of my life where this is actually going to apply. So

I'm your host, Adam Gragg. I am a corporate and individual legacy

coach and I've been a family therapist for a number of years. My passion

and the purpose of Decide youe Legacy is helping people and organizations

live courageously, facing their fears, doing things

differently. You know, I have faced a fear recently. One of those fears

is hiring my daughter, not knowing what to expect,

being in a situation where I don't know how to.

I don't really know how to do this. I've never done it before. I have

one daughter. That's it. So she's now an employee officially,

she's like in the office every day. It's great, I get it. But

it's a fear and I'm facing it, I'm leaning into it. And there's

things every day that I didn't expect and there's things every day that I are

different than my expectations, but it's a fear. So how have you faced a fear

lately? I'd like you to think about that to get started. And I like to

think in this podcast, if you would put yourself in a situation

potentially that you are in now and you're a leader in that situation. So

whether it's at your church, it's with your job, it's with your family, you're a

leader in different situations and you can apply this content. So

I struggle with this because for me

it's a change to trust and I know the less I trust,

the more I try to control. And so it's a change for me to put

myself in these situations. And what I will find myself

doing at times is just manufacturing my own drama,

getting stuck in it, even self sabotage because that's safer for

me than actually stepping out and growing this thing so it can impact more people.

Just being frank with you. And today I have a special guest.

It's somebody interviewing me. I felt like it'd be a great chance for me to

be asked some questions about what I'm learning about leadership. That could be helpful. That

will be helpful to you, but by somebody else who is a leader on the

Decide youe Legacy team. Her name's Kelsey Torkelson and she's our brand

relations director. And so she's going to ask me questions and I'm going to

answer them and you're going to take notes. And I want

to share a little bit. Something else

as well is that, is that as you go through this

content, it is great to think of yourself leading a

specific person. I find that gives some context to it as you

go in and you think, well, how could this impact that specific person? And think

of somebody that's frustrating to you. So on your

team there may be somebody that just you don't connect with

very well and they may have just a different personality because people that are highly

analytical often can clash with somebody who's a strong people, person,

person. It's like the sales department clashing with the finance department at your

company. And somebody that is more one on one can clash with somebody

that is more decisive and driven and wants to

move in a fast direction. It can put them in an uncomfortable situation. So I

find that to be helpful. Get specific. Specificity

decreases anxiety and it gives you applicability. You can apply

it to that specific situation. So, Kelsey, go ahead.

Well, how would you define leadership in your own words?

Leadership. To me, as I focus on it,

it's influence. It's you being in a

situation where you can help somebody else to go where they've

articulated they want to go and where, you know they can

go. So you see somebody on your team and they have great potential to

be great at sales, let's say, because they're

articulate and they're a people person and they're fun and they love to

meet new people. But you find that in sales

situations, they get anxious, but you believe that they can

get there. You know, that they're passionate about the cause of the company and being

a representative in the community, but you believe it so much. But they. They

doubt themselves and they second guess. But a good leader is going to continually

pull them out of the drama, and some of that drama is in their own

heads and towards the progress. And that progress

is going to be the next step that they can take, the next step that

they can challenge themselves with. And you show them how much you believe

in them because you're giving them those opportunities. And then they see, wow, I can

do this. Because what I found is that people only grow after

they do something that they're afraid to do. They

grow, and then they see on the other side because they let go of the

outcomes, that it's actually much better than they thought it could actually be. So

leadership is influence, and it's helping people to focus on the

gains, not the gaps. So successes at the end of the

day rather than the failures at the end of the day. So I love asking

people on my team, like, what did you do that you were afraid of today?

And I find as they share those things, that usually their energy level goes up

because they did something. And even if it didn't go well, like, I asked a

friend yesterday who has. I've. I've kind of loosely

been asked to hold him accountable. At least he's given me permission to hold him

accountable based on making sales calls. And that's difficult

in his business for him. And he shared with me a list of

five calls that he had actually made, and one of them was promising. And

even in that interaction, surprisingly, it inspired me to go ahead and do something because

I saw someone else face a fear. So he was willing to face a fear.

But me asking that question was my opportunity. To

influence him and to see that I believe in him and I believe

in other people often more than they believe in themselves. People believe in me more

than I believe in myself oftentimes. And that's what I need

from other people. Because people need to lead me. I am led. If I'm willing

to be a good leader, then I'm also going to have to be willing to

be led by other people if I want to be a good leader. That is,

that's really good. What's one belief or principle that guides

everything you do as a leader? Well, it, it

motivates me to know that I'm being watched and hopefully no

one, no one is watching me in while I'm sleeping at

night, or that's what I'm talking about. But I'm. That my behavior

that they see during the day at work

or that my clients see is, is influencing

them as well. So when I take a vacation, which

I'm going on a 10 day vacation

in like five days, I'm gonna go to California, see my parents and

go to the beach and go hike Half Dome and everything, a lot of my

clients, they, they get it. I, I've noticed over time

that, and they even told me over time, like the fact that you take vacations

at them and that you seem to really enjoy it, that's, that's inspiring

to me because I'm in a mindset, right. I don't feel like I can just

disconnect and trust my team and trust other people. So they

work all the time kind of thing, or even on vacations, they work. I know

a lot of people like that. And so if I can, if it inspires

me to say, like, well, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to do this

work stuff, even though it's going to be extremely tempting, I'm not

going to go and plug into that because I'm going to, I'm going to take

this time to be rejuvenated. So I'm better for my clients and I'm

better for my team and I'm better for my community because I'm young again. That's

rejuvenation. So that, that I'm being, that helps me and

it helps me also to

just acknowledge that I don't have to have it all figured out. I mean,

that's a, that's a belief that if I'm sloppy and

messy because, because even my team right now, I, I'm using a

new, a new system for holding meetings

and I don't understand It's. It's the EOS

system from Traction, and I like it a lot. And

I've. I've actually used. I've had a lot of clients

use it, and it's great. I mean, I love the book, but I've realized

that I'm not actually applying this with my own team, and I don't know how

to use it very well. So I'm really. I'm really kind of sloppy. I'm making

a lot of mistakes. I'm like, But. And part of me

on one side is saying, like, well, they're not going to think you're

good enough as a leader. You know, like, you're letting them down because you're not.

So you don't have it dialed in. And then part of me is

like, it's okay that they see that, because they can see that I'm

staying on my. Out of my own drama, and I'm not giving up on this

thing. I mean, I know that it works. I've seen it work, and I've seen

how you can have structured meetings that really work. And I've. I would say on

a scale 1 to 10, I give myself like a. Like a 3 or a

4 over the last couple of weeks. But that's okay because that's insight I'm gaining

to say, like, I can correct this, I can correct that. And even this, the

parts of running, of owning a business that I'm not great at and learning to

delegate that, learning to improve myself in the process, it's. It gives me

the freedom to say, like, it's okay, it's okay. But then I'm focusing

on how much I'm still gaining in the process, and that comes out with

other people. So I'm leading by example. Great

question. Have you always seen yourself as the leader or was

there a turning point? I. I've had times where I have. It's

a both and. And I think, yes, yes and no.

So it's a. Most things in life are in the middle. It's a both and.

So I have at times, and if I go back, I think of

times when I. I was, gosh,

I can go back to college and think, yeah, I was in situations where I

was not engaging in certain behaviors and other people were, and it was

great. So I. And I can think of times where I have

taken the easy path and I've wanted to be comfortable

and. And I've been leaning more on convenience than actually

doing the hard thing. So. And both are good. Both are good for

me to Remember, Because I can remember the. The pain of just hiding

out and isolating and not seeing this privileged position that

we're all in as fathers and mothers and bosses and

business owners and people in our neighborhood and community. But. And at times I

can reflect back, and it's good to think like, yeah, I led in that situation

and that I don't know what kind of influence it had because sometimes you don't

know until down the road that that actually impacted that person. It's very

gratifying when, you know, but I don't always know.

And I mean, I. I feel like there. There's times

where, you know, going through a. A divorce and being a family

therapist back then, I felt like I can't. I can't lead. You

know, I can't. This is not. I've disqualified myself from being a leader in

this situation. And so I wanted to hide from it. You know, I

wanted to not expose to anybody. I. And I did a good fear. I mean,

not a great job at it, but I thought I was doing a pretty good

job at it. And so. And then realizing over time that, you know, I can

use that for good. And it's actually, I can empathize in a different

way. I can be with people in a different way now that I couldn't

have been back then. And so I can still lead. I can still influence

people. And those failures, if you define. I

don't define failure as this really negative thing. I see failure

as didn't go the way I hoped it would have gone. And I learned from

it through course correction and making changes. So in that

regard, I see myself as a leader because of failures in my life.

And the turning point for me has been.

Well, there's a lot of turning points, but I mean, one major turning point

lately has. Has been seeing

that has. Has been.

Well, has been the intentional remembering

in situations of remembering of

that. That change I've been somewhat related to, like, that impact,

that situation I've been somewhat connected to. And.

And so it's been a turning point in the last couple years

that I am connected to these situations.

And if I can intentionally remind myself that that is a

privileged position, it makes a big difference. So every day is. I can listen to

either voice. No, you're not a leader. No, you are a leader. And I can

send to focus on one more than the other. Yeah,

well, what's the biggest myth you think people believe about leadership?

That they're not a leader. That they

are not in a position where somebody's watching and

Being influenced by their life. And I think that's a scapegoat,

sort of something to focus on. That's drama. It's.

It's going to take their attention away from making positive

changes, from. From doing things that are going to influence

other people. Because I don't find that much is more

energizing to somebody than knowing that they can have an

influence on other people's lives through how they live their life.

So when they grasp that, it's very energizing and just saying I'm not a

leader or I'm not qualified or I can't use my mistakes, I can't

use my failures to help other people. That's a scapegoat. That's just

an easy way out. And those things might create

roadblocks for them, they might create barriers for them, but those barriers could

be exactly what they need because it directs them into the right direction.

Yeah. To where they can have an impact. They think that's the way I want

to have an influence. And that may not be where they're being called to have

an influence. In fact, it's not if there's a barrier there that's insurmountable

because of whatever you've. You've had in your life. You know, I.

I think there's certain barriers in my life. I go back even

to. To thinking that, you know, I wanted to be in the

military at one point after college, and I was

a guy that. So I was going to become an officer in the Air Force.

And I remember in my interview, they asked me a bunch

of questions about whether or not I'd used any drugs in my past.

And I told him the truth. When I knew some other buddies that hadn't,

that had. They had partied with me, I knew they were, you know,

wild as. Like I was, and. But I. I just shared. Shot

straight with them about some certain things that I had

tried and mistakes I had made, and that

disqualified me from being in the Air Force. And that was in

1999. I had friends that became officers in the

military, and I knew that they were probably asked the same

questions and they just were. They

didn't kind of shoot straight. And I'm not bashing them at all because I

think, you know, to each, we have different approach and everything.

But. But that. That limited me, but it really didn't limit

me because it opened it up, opened up a door to the perfect path for

me at that. In that situation in my life. And so I can be

grateful for it now. Well, what daily or

weekly habits have helped you grow as a leader.

Daily having courageous conversations with a heart

of peace that I'm

not procrastinating on. I'm looking for the right time to have them.

But I go in with a willingness to have those

conversations. And that can be with a client, that can be

with someone that's a potential employee, that can be with somebody that is an

employee that can be with somebody. I'm close to a friend. But

to err on the side of saying, hey, I'm going to ask a question to

get clarity because questions can be triggering for people when you ask them. But

get, but being willing to ask that question in that situation and

then to

be prepared for it too. So I find that if I

know that I'm going to go down the path of having those harder

conversations with people and, and I have one friend that says

quality of your business. He's told me before is just keep having the hard

conversations. Keep having the difficult conversations, like, oh great, you know,

because don't they end at some point where you don't have to have them? And

it's like, no, you don't. But you get more skilled at it and the people

around you know that it's going to be addressed. And people as a leader, they

see that you're the one who doesn't hide from dealing with the difficult

stuff. And, and if I go in with that, that, that mindset,

that's a habit that I've been building and working on. Not perfectly,

it's. I give myself on a scale 1 to 10, probably a 5 with that

one. But it's making a difference because I, I know the

quality of the direction of the business is, is greatly

influenced by that. And the impact that I have on other people is influenced by

that as well. Hard conversations and those are in, in a variety

of formats. I mean with, with vendors, with potential clients, with. And

it's every day they abound with employees, with employees.

Right? Yeah. Right. So. So not airing to the side of just being

reactive and not airing to the side of being passive, but being able to respond

thoughtfully. So we correct it and then we worked better together

because. Because it is this thing that. And this is my own hypocrisy because I

can tell companies over and over again, like, you know, you grow

and you're closeness and the

cohesiveness of your team is going to go. It means directly

resolving conflicts. So going through the conflict. And I have to practice

that and continue to make that a habit. How

do you stay grounded and confident? When leading during uncertain times,

it's being prepared for it. So getting enough sleep,

getting enough exercise, taking the time to read,

taking the time to work on my spiritual life, having

good friendships. I noticed that if I take time to

rejuvenate on the weekends, I'm better when I come to

work. I'm better when I talk to clients. I'm better when I engage in

difficult conversations because I'm not bringing that baggage with me. So

the daily action worksheet, which we did a podcast on, I think two or three

episodes ago, practicing that, if I look at that and I

channel my energy into seeing how I'm balancing my life, and it helps you to

see what's good in your life, to get excited about things in your life, to

see what you have to be excited about, to see what your wins are and

reflect on those, I mean, that's essential. For me, I definitely notice

a connection in the way that I can

confidently go into leadership situations

influencing people. And I get you are. You are a leader with your clients.

I mean, you're not perfect, you're a fellow traveler, but they're

looking to you as somebody who can take them in the direction that they want

to go. So that company that I work with in their

leadership team is looking to me to help facilitate the discussions that help them stay

out of the drama and move towards and in the direction that they want to

head in. So pretty. Pretty key. Maybe really

the most essential, the most essential thing

and that I can think of is just my own personal, in my own

head perspective, kind of coming in with

a good atom at a good place. Yeah. Yeah. And

when I don't, you know, when I have a bad. In a. I can think

of situations where I. Gosh, I come to work and I think I did not

bring my best self here today. And it's because of the decisions I made last

night, this weekend. And I shake it off and I can hopefully

even see over time, usually not until the next day when I say, I'm

not going to do that again. You know, I stayed up late one night before

work, and it just wasn't a good decision. And I was celebrating having some hard

work, client interactions, and they went well. And I'm like, I'm just gonna watch

TV until midnight. You know, like, what am I thinking? I'm just gonna eat a

big old bowl ice cream. In fact, not just one. I'm gonna have like three.

And I'm thinking, dude, why Adam? You know, because it impacts my sleep.

I mean, it's just Not a good thing for me to do, but I will

do it. And then I have to, to live with that. But that can be

used. That can be used. That does not mean that you can just say. Which

I can do is say I can kind of not have to worry about how

I spend my time on the weekends or what I do in my relationships. I

don't have to worry about because it doesn't really impact the way I run a

business. No, that's not true. It impacts me as a dad, a friend,

every area of my life. How do you balance

being decisive with being collaborative?

Well, I can use, it can be a bow. It's a both and when it's

healthy. So collaborate

can also be an excuse. Where I abdicate is. I think

that's the word. I give the decision to other people whose

purpose, whose responsibility is not to make that

decision. And so I have somebody to say, well, if it doesn't go

well, I can say, you know, well, they were involved in that decision as well.

But no, as a leader, the buck stops with you. You made that decision,

you got some feedback. Hopefully you did collaborate, you were working

as a team. I don't believe you just go and make decisions on your own

without collaboration. That's a healthy way of making decisions. That's how

you get buy in. That's how you get people to actually get excited about the

decision being made. And so I can go to both extremes. I can be the

guy that just makes the decision sometimes because I want to, I want to think

about it anymore, let's just make the call. Or I can be the guy that

over collaborates just to not have to take responsibility for the decision.

But if I meet in the middle where I'm getting feedback, getting asking good

questions because sometimes it, it's

important to not make a decision over time. I mean,

and a lot of decisions are that way. But are you doing the work now

to have the interactions that give you more information so that you can make

that good decision? And that's the role of good collaboration.

Consistently having those conversations and revisiting them and getting

clarity, but me being willing to step into that.

And that also means being willing to get opinions that differ

from yours. So you have people around you that see things differently, that have a

different approach. And you're willing to say we align enough that

they're a great addition to the team. We, we align enough

that even though they may not believe in themselves, I believe in them and

their feedback. Their, their, their feedback

might sometimes be, well, I mean

it even could be that they, they bring some fear into their collaboration. You know,

I know with my mom there are business decisions where

she doesn't bring her own personal stuff and she's just super

wise, like, like she can help me in certain

aspects and I go to her for encouragement frequently, more

so probably than ever. And there are some parts of my life that if I

ask her for collaboration, so feedback, I know that it's going to fill,

it's going to feed fears in me. So you have to be very kind of

careful who you go to with your goals, you know, with, with your

fears. But it's been really encouraging to see like man,

she's a great like business advisor and that's been just at age

51 I'm seeing this stuff because I would go and sort of put

it all in the same bucket that, that, that fear and she'll admit

it. I mean she'll admit certain fears and they're not business related actually, they're,

they're more personal things that could be fear

based. And to have that wisdom, to step back from it and see it for

what it is is really empowering, encouraging. Get excited about calling her.

That's super cool. Yeah. What role does self awareness

play in effective leadership? That's huge.

If you can't step back from yourself and see that

I am missing the mark here and be willing

to say I gotta correct that. I, if I want to go

to where I want to go in my personal professional life, then

let's make some adjustments here. So being self aware enough that

I'm late to meeting sometimes, being self aware enough that

sometimes I can exaggerate and

embellish has been really important to me. So I'll even make

notes to myself sometimes that don't embellish. You know,

don't oversell, don't. Yeah, it's an interview. I remember interviewing

someone a couple weeks ago and I had put it on top, you know, don't

embellish because I can do that and it's an over. It's like

I'm very passionate about what I do and so I want them to be passionate

about it too. So I'll paint a picture. That embellishment to me can also just

be leaving out some of the stuff. You're not lying, but

you're misleading because you're leaving out some of the stuff that's really

important to give context to that specific situation.

So that's, that's a self awareness thing.

Gaining self awareness. What do great leaders do that struggling leaders

often Overlook. I find that great leaders are

consistently putting energy into their

perspective that I know I can't do this

on my own and I know I can't think clearly about the situation with just

my own thinking. My own thinking is not going to always be healthy because

my past and my fears are in intermixed with that. And so

they find ways to get a healthy perspective about the situation.

So for, for me personally I have to talk to a lot

of different friends that own businesses. That, and that's been a huge change in my

life over the last two, two and a half years is having a network of

people that I can share my fears with and they can

give me perspective on it. And then the, the

reverse happens too. They can share with me and I give them my perspective. And

we're all in different industries which I find really cool because sometimes

with the same industry some people have the same fears and I find they can

add it or make you feel like you're not doing it right. But there's so

much universal crossover in industries that having

somebody outside, which is so cool for me too because all the stuff that

we do at Decide youe Legacy is not in our industry. So we're

not actually helping other coaching companies. We're helping

medical practices and, and manufacturing

companies and companies that do

construction and different industries that I don't

know anything about. You know, it's like I don't know and that's a really great

thing because I can't give direct advice on their industry but I can have

this outside perspective that doesn't have their specific

fears involved. Yeah, that gives them.

And sometimes that frustrates people too because they want to know like do this, do

this, go. Here's a five step process to fix your business. But I don't ever

find that really motivating and helpful for people because generally they have

plenty of knowledge, they have plenty of expertise and they know where to actually get

that expertise. And it's not through, it's not through what we

offer with, with coaching to the leadership team. It's not that.

It's, it's some, it's a book, it's a, it's a process and it's well

worth the investment of their time and energy to get that sort of expertise.

But what we do is actually help them step back from it and have a

clear, non biased, non industry related

perspective. This is what they know will work and they get that clarity in the

process. Really that's what I see. I see leaders

doing and, and I find so Those are really people that are

great leaders. I find that they, they find out where they can go and get

great advice and they're careful to not get it from a

fearful person and a biased perspective

that doesn't have the whole picture in mind. Right. Yeah.

Well, how do you help others rise into leadership roles? You

trust them like you. The

more that the, the more,

the less I trust a situation, a person,

the, the more I try to control and, and say this is

how it should be done and this is what should happen here. And then

at some point it's just anxiety provoking. I mean, control and

anxiety just go hand in hand. Is a different kind of anxiety when you

relinquish control. It's this excitement type of anxiety. Which

anxiety are very similar. I mean the way the part of your brain, just

how they impact you, just the

hormonal impact. I mean the positive and negative can be very,

very similar in a lot of, in a lot of regards, but they are very

different in the energy that they give people and the

desire to go and act and face that thing. So,

so when I, when I, when I trust somebody and they,

they see that I believe in them and that can be a client, that could

be a, an employee, that can be somebody in my family, it can

be a friend and you realize how much they have to offer.

So in this business networking group, I see a lot of this too, because people

will, will share. And I remember somebody with me at some point,

they said, man, you have what it takes. Like, look at, look at what

you're doing. Look at, he's. I would get down on myself saying, you know, this

didn't go well, that didn't go well. You know, whatever. I mean, so maybe I'm

sharing too much information here, but I mean, I share that because that can be

encouraging to people because you have moments where you just don't feel like you're,

you're, you're helping people as much as you want to. And then that, that

outsider saying, you know, I, you, dude, you're selling yourself

short. You're offering a great service. I mean this is impacting people's lives

and their futures. And then that can sink into me and it's a kick in

the butt that's like, man, you know, that anxiety turns into

energy to push forward. It makes it really worth it.

Yep. How do you handle conflict or resistance

on a team? You accept that it's going

to happen. I, I feel like a lot of conflicts

that by accepting it is validating it. I can see you're frustrated by this.

I can see you have some discouragement with this. I

can see you don't like this. You're validating it and you're giving

credence to it. You're actually realizing that's real to them

and that's okay that they feel that way. And it's also okay, okay that you

feel the way you do. So it doesn't have to be this

deal breaker type thing that you can go through this, that you can

actually navigate through it and see that there's something good at the other

end. And then you hear what their

perspective is. Because the meaning behind the conflict may be different

than the presenting issue. And in

that situation where somebody, let's say you have conflict over their

punctuality or the way they dress at work or their attitude at

work, or a variety of things that you could get frustrated about

and that could lead to some conflict. Conflict, meaning just some tension related to that

issue. And if you explore it with some curiosity, you realize it's not

really punctuality that's the sim. That's the,

that's the external manifestation of a deeper

issue. And maybe they don't feel trusted and maybe they don't feel

like you're clear enough on the expectations that need to be

clearer. Maybe it doesn't mean that they're going to just resist

it from this point forward. It doesn't mean that they're not going to change. But

if you're willing to see it as an opportunity, it's like when you,

when you deal with objections from other people that might be your, an

employee or a customer, and you can see those

as actual opportunities to go deeper and

explore what was missing in your presentation. What was missing

in that situation. I mean, you don't, you don't push it to the nth

degree. I mean, there's a tact to it. Yeah, but

you're, you're sensing that there's something deeper behind it. So you see it as a

great opportunity to go deeper. And conflict is like that. It's,

it's almost where you want to. And I've heard Patrick

Lincione talk about in the Advantage, the concept of mining for

conflict. So you're bringing it to the surface so that it's

addressed and then it doesn't mean

it's completely resolved in that situation, but it's not

avoided. And now you see what the real

elephant issue actually is so that you can solve it and it doesn't

become this other issue and another issue or manifest

externally in some other form of resistance because you're giving credence

to it. And what I find is that over time, if you have a long

game over time, you influence people

in a way that moves the organization in the right direction because you're willing to

actually sit and address and, and be still with the

conflict, to feel your discomfort and to stay with it or to make or to

redirect it to a better time and a place. That's all kinds of things you

can do, but to not get consumed by it to where it immobilizes you and

you avoid it. Yeah. What have you

learned about building trust in relationships?

Well, I've already alluded to that a little bit here. So like trust comes from

proximity because you're exposed to somebody, so you see evidence of their

trustworthiness because consistency over time builds trust. And that

proximity expos you to conflict and that conflict and how they handle it over

time starts to build trust because people know what they're getting. They know whether you're

somebody who can handle it or somebody who will run away from it and get

defensive. And that defensiveness that you get from people,

which I can be around a lot of defensive people. I mean,

defensiveness from clients, defensiveness from

family, defense. I mean, I've been around a lot of defensive people. I mean, there's

been some situations in my life that have. Have just been

tremendously conflictual and you

know, like. And so I can even have a mindset that it's

going to be a defensive response when I address something and that's not healthy

because I'm setting an expectation that's not good right from the get go.

And so I had a friend recently say that he asked

his daughter to do things with him frequently. And

she's a teenager and they have a, from what I can tell,

a pretty good relationship. But he gets discouraged because he asked her to go and

play golf and to go on a walk and to go out to eat, to

do things that she does like doing and she does do with her other, with

her friends and with other family members and everything. But she

seems to say no to him. And there's been this pattern and,

and one of his other friends, not me, I didn't actually say this, but I

know another good friend of his said, well, you know, how's your heart when you

go into asking and how much

do you think you convey and communicate in the way that you ask? And his

response was like, he feels like his heart is good. Like. And he was frustrated

and we talked about it because he felt like, well, I'm just asking and I'm

not putting pressure and I'm not saying if you don't do this, I'm not going

to, you know, want to spend time. Nothing like that at all. But he was

checking his orientation towards her

and that, that

your, your attitude towards somebody builds trust. So,

so. And I don't know, I'm not in those situations. I don't know whether or

not he was doing it right or doing it wrong. But in the conversation he

was exploring, getting some self awareness, saying, well, may maybe I am

going and already thinking it's not going to go well. And I'm carrying that to

that interaction which could impact the way people trust somebody

else. Yeah, because you're already coming in with some. An

aura of defensiveness which, which I know I can do.

I know I can do that for sure. And I haven't still figured out

completely how to do it except to try and understand where people are coming from.

If I do step back and say, hey, this is what we're dealing with here

and it's okay, it's because that's their situation. And I.

How am I being challenged in this situation? If you can see your fears, if

you can view your discomfort with gratitude because it reveals the work that you can

do to grow, that's pretty powerful.

What kind of legacy do you want to leave as a leader?

That, that and this. This comes down to really two big

leadership concepts that I want to summarize in, in this episode.

If I could sum up the two things that I believe are

really impactful that I'm learning. And I really say that

as a key is learning is that, is that

a really good leader is able to

pull that team, that person, help that person,

not by force, but through influence, through building a relationship,

through building a relationship with other people around them. Not by correcting.

That's probably the least effective thing you can do as a leader, correcting and

teaching, but by listening and primarily by building a connection.

By building a connection, by learning, by engaging, by asking questions.

I want that to be my legacy. That I pulled them out of the drama

in their own heads. Because I believe most external conflict is a, is a

manifestation of internal conflict. Not not being comfortable with who you are

inside, not being comfortable in your own skin. And that comes out.

And so if I can be remembered as somebody that pulled these, these

families, these teams, I've done it. I mean, 25 years of family, therapist, being a

lot of conflict that you get to see, but being pulled out and that the

second thing is that I. I want to leave a legacy, that I'm willing to

go first, that I'm willing to go and do the hard thing first. So we.

Whether that's in the. Having the hard conversations,

being willing to change my lifestyle based on what's hard to

do uncomfortable things, to be willing to make

the call when it's hard to have the conversation, when it's hard to do the

scary thing. I'm not, I mean, emotionally scary thing. And

that's never going to go away. It's always going to present opportunities, which

is kind of exciting because every day's a new day where I can

live that legacy I want to leave there.

And, and that that's going to influence them more than anything because that's going to

build some connection and I'm being watched. Leaders are conscious

of the fact that they are being watched by other

people. So their behavior does have an impact, even though they get no validation for

it necessarily at the. In the moment. Especially.

What mistake or challenge has taught you the most about leadership.

Definitely looking back and saying, I played it safe there. I

didn't do that thing that I know was a good thing that I can

do, could do. I decided not to do it and be stuck

in my head. And perfectionism, procrastination, they go hand

in hand. I've just been stuck in that, refining, refining

all that. And to look back and say, you know what? I just did it.

When I just made the call, when I just had the conversation, when I

just challenged the client, when I just shot straight and I brought up that

topic, that was some inconsistency that I'm seeing because

I'm leading them out of the drama towards where they want to go.

And knowing when I didn't do that, that's hard for me. That's hard for me

to sit back and go home at the end of the day and say, I

could have done better there. But it's also great because then I

learned through those moments. So it teaches me

every day what I could have done differently and do I want to learn those

lessons. That's the challenge too, is from. Is is being willing to sit

with that discomfort that I didn't do what I wanted to do today, but I

can do it tomorrow. And I know when I leave at the end of the

day that when I've done these things that are hard, that I'm going to feel

a different level of energy and also want to do more of them. Because I

notice that on those productive Days when I'm doing the stuff that I know I

need to do as a leader, then I wanted to do more of it. More

of it, more. Because I know how much energy that actually gives me. It's a

really great kind of energy that you face something that's nothing like that

when you've done something that you have faced emotionally and you feel

good about it, you know. And for me, where I'm growing now is that is

trusting people. That's a. The main thing is learning how to trust. That's been my

big lesson, that. Learning how to trust again over the last three years. I

would say that's been huge for me. Big, big deal. That is

putting myself. Yeah, it's hard. And putting myself in situations where I have to trust

people. And then sometimes there's situations where, where they just

remind me of situations where I've been burned in the past. So it's like, oh,

yeah, yeah, yeah. So. But it, it's,

it's super helpful to, to,

to be able to reflect on that and see the good stuff, to see the

gains in that. What's one small action

someone can take today to become a better leader?

You can start today by, by going

first. And what I mean is that you can make a

commitment. I like to write it down somewhere

where I see myself write it down. I tell myself that if I hand write

it, it's going to stick in my brain more because it's going through my hand

to my brain, and there's something about that. And I don't have no idea whether

that's really true because it's not what I always do when I make a commitment.

But I do find myself, even if it's something where I'm making a list

and I'm writing out and typing out this, this,

this thing I'm afraid of, it's given a presentation or having a

courageous conversation, when I still write it down, handwrite it, like, I'm going

to do this, help me. Then I find that it

actually sticks better. So where your fear is, there

lies your task. Carl Hung. I mean, where your fear is. So what am I

going to. What am I going to do? I mean, you're. You today are taking

a big step of faith because I know that.

I believe Kelsey. I know that you can do something

like interview me. I know you can do things that are. And you do. I

see you do a lot of courageous things. I've seen you do a ton of

courageous things in your life and continue to be willing to say

yes. So that's the same thing I would challenge everybody else is to say yes

to that thing that you know would be a good thing for you to do

that could get you to the next level. Yes. Just like you've done today. You

said yes and you did it. And, and that's a really exciting

thing. So I wanted to go ahead and summarize, kind of

wrapping it up. If you if you found this podcast helpful

on leadership, you'll find Shatterproof Yourself Light a

meaningful exercise. You go through a 25 minute video

and it's broken down on the Decide youe Legacy app in little sections that are

manageable. And then you complete a worksheet that goes with it. It's seven small

steps to a giant leap in your mental health. These are actions, simple

actions I believe leaders want to do and can do things fast

and in a simplified format. So you just jot

down your answers, things that come to mind on this worksheet, and

you're going to find it impactful to you and your perspective and

your belief in yourself. So you want to hit the link to check out

Shatterproof Yourself Light and it's going to guide you through that worksheet and give you

some really inspiring actions you can take starting

today. And in addition to that, if there's something that's resonated

with you today, and I know there probably is, related to leadership and

influence, I want you to make it your mission

that by the end of the day you're going to apply something that you've learned.

So, and even if it's a mindset shift, that I have influence there and I

have a lot to offer in that situation and I can take that step and

I can go first in that situation. I'm going to go first. I'm going to

commit today. So make a commitment. Because

change happens when we take action. 80% of transformational change

is taking an action. 20% is insight. Don't get stuck in

insight that's not nearly as impactful as the action. You need some insight. You get

some clarity. You get those moments where it's like, that would work for me. And

you had some of those today, but you got to take action on that for

it to actually stick. So I want to summarize these two big leadership concepts from

today. One is that leaders pull people out of the drama,

towards the progress, towards the vision, towards that ideal. Help them to

get there one step at a time and challenge them to get out of that.

Point them to it. Don't necessarily bluntly say you're in drama. Get out of the

drama. No, it's like, hey, ask questions that get them out towards and that

can you just be just healthy, Good old healthy. Deflection

can pull people out of drama because people are stuck in that. You as a

leader can pull them out of that. And then leaders go first. They're willing to

be seen and their actions are influencing their kids, their

spouse, their team, their company, their community.

All kinds of people that can motivate you. So remember those two lessons. So

nothing will make my day and inspire me more than if you

share with me some action that you applied from this

podcast today. Take action and follow to side your legacy. Give us a rating

and review Apple, Spotify, check us out on YouTube. We're going to give you

some other meaningful, valuable content if you check out that content as well.

So to decide means to eliminate other options. You all

have so many decisions you can make. Leaders make a lot of decisions every day.

You decide by saying, that's the best choice for me to make

today. Your legacy is the impact that your life has on other

people. It's not about you. It's about the impact you can

have on other people's lives. You decide your legacy today.

Your legacy is going to be impacted greatly by the decisions that you

make. So live the life today that you want to be remembered for 10 years

after you're gone. You

decide your legacy, nobody else. I appreciate you greatly

and I'll see you next time.