You know how you have people at work that you work with just in life

in general that are drama and maybe they see the

negative, they see what can go wrong. They get defensive very easily.

I mean, you know, the negative interpretation about different situations. So

you get afraid to bring things up with them. I mean, you get, you just

sense the fact that it could go wrong. And that's not fun.

I mean, they're hard to communicate with and you got to

be scripted or prepared or. Well,

it doesn't have to be that way. And so today we're going to talk about

how you deal with strategies to deal with difficult people.

And it's going to give you some more empathy for people and why they carry

themselves that way.

So I struggle with this and I struggle with,

well, I would say just being myself around those types of people

where I feel like I'm going to be judged and they're going to see what

I'm doing wrong rather than what I'm doing right. Not a great thing. And

I have been one of those difficult people as well. So today

I want to welcome you to the Decide youe Legacy podcast. The episode is on

three smart strategies for handling

these difficult types of people that I have

described at the beginning of this episode. And

you're going to want to stick around and listen because the very end I'm going

to share the one thing that I would suggest is going to make the

biggest difference in your relationships. And it's not going to be what you've expected

to hear. It's going to be something very different because

you're just going to be surprised. So you want to hear what I have to

say. And it'll be encouraging to you because you'll know that you can go into

these situations that, that are challenging. Because I can imagine right now you may be

picturing somebody at work that just isn't right. It doesn't

fit in. And this does not just apply to work. I mean, this applies

to your home situation and it applies to your kids

and your ex spouses or if

you have people in your family on the holidays. I mean, you know, you're

thinking, hey, every year it's just a tough situation to deal with.

Maybe it's an in law. Those can be challenging as well. But you are going

to be equipped to to handling these types of relationships with more skill and

grace. And when you have a plan, it decreases the

anxiety because a plan decreases ambiguity. You have a game plan that you stick to.

1, 2 and 3. It's a great strategy, makes a Big difference. You're going to

have a plan today. I'm going to give you these three strategies today. So, as

I do in every episode, I want to share a fear that I have faced

recently and the outcome, if I have an outcome so far. But

here's what happened. I offered a job to somebody.

It was scary because it's been a long vetting process. Talked

to lots of different candidates. I've had lots of people I've reached out to, and

I still do reach out to. I keep a list of people that I want

to work for. Decide your legacy. I mean, you may be on my list and

you may not even know it, but I keep that list. And I vetted the

whole process. It went well. I was more direct and assertive than I have been

in the hiring process in the past because I like people to like me. So

I don't have necessarily ask the hard questions. I don't necessarily present the issue

that I might be concerned with in the hiring process. So it went well.

And you'll get to experience more of this new employee

and this situation in the future. So I'm Adam Gragg. I'm a legacy

coach. I'm the host of the Decide youe Legacy podcast. I've been a family therapist

for 20 over 25 years. Founded Decide youe Legacy in

2012, and we help businesses

and leaders live courageously. That's my passion. And. And

it's all about facing fear. And by the way, everybody is

a leader. You just may not know it yet. If you're a father, if you're

a wife, if you're a husband, if you live in a neighborhood, if you go

to church, if you don't go to church, I don't care what it is. You

may not have direct management, leadership, executive position, but you are in a

position where people are watching your life and you have influence. Take that seriously.

It's inspiring when you actually do. So that's my

struggle. And. And I do have a guest today. Her name is Kelsey Torkelson.

And Kelsey is a leader, and she's on the team at Decide youe

Legacy. And she's gonna ask me some questions about this topic, these

strategies for handling difficult people. And I know that you have difficult people

in your life. Even if you don't think of them right now. I guarantee you

will by the end of this episode. You're gonna keep picture somebody, and it may

be somebody that you like as well, but you like and

actually work well with. But there's one aspect of that relationship that is challenging

and. And you just don't know how to handle it. You're going to learn how

to do that today. Go ahead and ask me some questions.

Kelsey, I want to ask who's difficult in our office, but I'm not going

to ask that. Oh, my gosh. Everybody in their own little way. So there's

difficult people all around. There's difficult people in this studio

right now as well. And I won't name names, but there's

one that's extremely difficult, and it's not you. Okay, that's good.

Okay, there we go. Okay. So how does focusing

on what's fascinating help strengthen the workplace relationships?

Well, this is interesting because if somebody is demotivated or

discouraging or they're always stirring up drama, one of the solutions may

be that they don't have the right role in the company.

And you might be able to look at them and say, they're just so much

drama. They're just always creating problems. But there's a level of

insecurity and fear behind that. It's kind of like,

what fears? And I love to ask this in the coaching process, it's like session

two or three. Like, you know, what do you tell yourself about yourself that harms

you? And so if you can identify what they're telling them about themselves, that harms

them and they can identify that, then that it could be that

mindset shift that allows them to let go and then

unleash their creativity and their energy into a new

role, into a bigger future. And so you, as a leader can find what fascinates

them and put them in that role. Find a way. Because I even was

yesterday asked by a leader, you know, is, do you

see situations where this type of employee and they were talking about an employee that

was struggling in the company, do you see situations where people change and they actually

do better? And my answer is, well, you know, I'm the wrong person to ask

because I kind of like to see hope in everybody. But my answer was really

evidence that I've seen a lot of evidence of people actually turning

things around when they start to channel their energy into things in their job

that are motivating for them. So somebody that's in an accounting type

role and they don't get a lot of people interaction, and maybe they have

a finance degree and accounting degree and they're put in a job where they're not

getting a lot of people interaction, they're put in a role where they are interacting

with people and helping people directly all of a Sudden they're super

fascinated and motivated about. About their job and they change

and they have a new employee, a new outlook, and somebody that was kind of

checked out, looking for a new job and not happy, finds a way to actually

find purpose in their career. So you find ways to.

That's one way a difficult person can transform into an inspiring,

motivated person. Doesn't mean you don't have to address the negativity, but it's going to

be a lot easier when they're in a new role and they see how they're

using their strengths every day. Well, you talk about

being paid in more than money. How do relationships at work

contribute to that kind of wealth? Well, that's a big deal because I'd like to

think of my as in a

situation that is difficult, the real pay is

going to be in new experiences and

new capabilities and even new

creativity that's unleashed. And so as I face

hard things and play the long game, easy now, hard later, hard

now, easy later, then I realize I'm paid in things that are much more valuable

than money than like cash money, you know, and I got

to give credit where credit is due. I've heard, I've. I've heard that Dan

Sullivan talk about this, who is a strategic coach, talk about this. I've heard

other people as well. And so to remember and have the

mindset shift that, like the belief perspective shift, that, you know,

the value that comes out of these interactions with difficult people is actually much greater

than, than getting them to do or inspiring them to do more. It's

actually, that's one of the things, because a relationship dynamic

that is improved and healthier comes out of it, that if you do

the hard, you get paid in so many different ways and ultimately you actually become

more valuable in the marketplace. You know, if that's your goal, which I think everybody's

goal should be to become more val. To add more value, not

you become more valuable as a person because nothing can really touch

your intrinsic value from my worldview. But you become more valuable

in the marketplace, which makes you. It's a great

thing to know that you're helping people more if you help people more in a

more skilled and useful way. Like I like to think that my value in the

marketplace is a hundred times thousand times greater than it was 10 years

ago. Because I have learned to become more confident and I've

learned to become more skilled at what I do so that I can help people

get to the root of the problem quicker and help people actually see their strengths

quicker. And kind of go to the meat. Like, if you hire a coach, I

like to think, you know, people have different levels of skill and everything. And as

I've become more valuable, I can, in five sessions,

decide your legacy can help them make more progress than they would in

20, potentially 10 years ago because you become more

skilled at it. It's not to say that I'm better than or whatever, but you

just get better and better. And that's the exciting thing is you make more mistakes,

you learn from them, you get more iterations, and then you realize that I can

help more people through the process. What are some ways

to truly listen to someone that you disagree with? Oh,

well, you know, to listen to somebody, you got to avoid

distraction and zone in on the person and realize

that one of the best things you can offer to somebody else is your attention

and to channel that attention to them. And once they pick up on the fact

that you're paying attention to them, then you're going to win them over. It has

to be genuine, but you're also going to be engaged in the conversation. So one

crucial aspect of dealing with anxiety is to not focus on yourself.

Like, focus less on yourself, your thoughts, your emotions, your feelings. Focus on

doing the next right thing. And then if you go to a social event, you

say that you're not a people person and you dread these social events. Well,

don't focus on the fact that you dread this event. Focus on getting to know

somebody and talking to somebody and contributing to somebody's life, life

at that event. And you'll find your anxiety dissipating. You don't have

attention to give to that anxiety. You have attention to give to somebody else. And

you simply can't do both at the same time. It's super powerful. And then you've

become energized and fun and. And so you focus

as well as you listen on helping somebody else understand what they're most

motivated and fascinated by. You're helping somebody and helping

somebody grasp their strengths by your connection with them. And they'll pick up

on that. It just comes out. And there's even a moment in a conversation that

you're having with somebody where you see, they see that you recognize their

potential. And when somebody see you recognize that somebody sees your

potential, that's going to energize you. And they've won you over from that

moment forward, because you don't have a lot of people in your life like that

that just see that and grasp it, and they see that so clearly. And that's

what we do as a coach, that's what we do as a friend, that's what

we do as a somebody that gives back, is we try to understand and zone

in and that becomes exciting to make you a better listener

and something as a boss, an employee. If you want to, if you want to

do this stuff with difficult people, well, just start tuning into what you

see. Light them up. Because you have people that are difficult

who actually have great success in parts of their job and they don't in other

parts of their job. But they might be a drama, fearful, anxious person.

Yet they, you see and recognize that maybe it was in the past or

maybe you've recognized this at like a Christmas party or another employee event, that they

are incredibly fascinated in this one. Fascinated and

inspired by this one aspect of their job or this one aspect of their

life. And how can we bring that into the workplace so they can engage that

more? You create those kinds of situations and you'll find that

they're fast, they're not and they don't have time to do the drama at that

point because they're giving back in a way that's inspiring to them. And all of

a sudden this drama filled person is contributing. And I

know for a lot of leaders, while they may see these negative aspects of

this employee and they say, well, if I channel them into the fascinating parts

of their job, but we're not dealing with the fact that they've been such a

butt for six months, you know, so they don't want to do that. You know,

like we should fire them or they'd be. But instead if

they can see that it's going to benefit the business, everybody's going to win because

you have a valuable asset there and it's very expensive and costly to terminate somebody.

Not saying that there aren't situations where you need to do that. And generally I

would like to say those are ethical issues, you know, fraud and

just really glaring situations. Most

situations as a leader, you have a salvageable situation if you

rechannel your energy into getting them into what's fascinating and motivating and then

they become much less of a pain in the butt

in that situation because they're inspired to do what they're assigned to do.

Can you share a story where using wisdom helped turn a strained work

relationship into a productive one? I can,

yeah. I mean, you know, there's a lot of different ones that I can think

of, but one, one specific story

is that when I own my part in the relationship, like

if I, if I look at situations. And

I say, well, they're mostly the problem. You know, it's really easy to do is

say, well, they're mostly the problem, you know, and you would behave the way I

behaved had you been dealing with the same person in the same situation. You know,

they, whatever, dress right, they don't

like, they're not following through on getting things done. They're not engaging in

conversations the way that I'd like them to. Anything. I mean, I can get this

negativity bias about a person and then if I can channel that because

that keeps me safe and keeps me protected from engaging them more at

a higher level. Because all I'm doing is seeing what's confirming what I already believe.

But if I can look and say, okay, in this situation,

I, I can own the fact that I messed up. You know, I was overreactive

or I was self centered or I didn't have the hard conversation, or I didn't

paint the picture of the reality in the situation. And if I can

just own one little piece and start the conversation that way with

them, their level of defensiveness decreases. They're much more apt

to own their responsibility in the interaction. They're much, much more apt to want to

change in the interaction and in the relationship in general. And so I

can see in the, and think of countless experiences working with leaders

when they just decided to take ownership, even though the other person's

not taking any ownership and they're 95% of the problem, they're taking

ownership of their one small piece and they're going first. Which leaders

do go first. They are leading. And that's really by definition.

They're willing to go where other people are not willing to go. And that ownership

makes a humongous difference in that kind of interaction.

And the chance of the employee changing just goes up exponentially. And I've seen

relationships that have been strained for 10 years, healed. I've seen situations with

siblings and parents and step parents and employees. And just

people can work together for 10 years and not like each other because they're in

different departments, they're not direct reports. But then they actually own one aspect and it

changes everything. Take ownership. As a

leader, how can you model wisdom in relationships for your team?

Wisdom. Wisdom in relationships. So like as a leader,

you mean like how can you be more a wiser leader in your relationships with

your team? Well, I mean, that's one thing I just shared is it's really wise

to be able to step back and look at yourself and how you're contributing to

the problem. And I'm not saying that you change who you are,

be who you are. I mean, like, don't change your.

Your. Your essence, but being willing to step back and say,

yeah, you know, I can own that. Because I think in as

a leader, a lot of times I let my own anxiety trickle in, and then

I'll. I'll share my own anxiety about revenue or about

new business or about a client or whatever, and then I'll actually expose

the team to stuff that I got to be dealing with inside myself internally, and

then maybe with a friend outside the business. Because for me, as a leader, I

have to be the most excited and motivated and optimistic person on the team. And

I am. I do believe I am, But I also believe that I can be

both. And. And sometimes I can have this fear. And so to be wise

enough to look at myself and step back from myself and wise enough to admit

when, like, I have at times say, hey, I, you know, I brought my own

anxiety to the workplace, and I don't want you to see that I am excited,

and that's my own junk I got to work on. And being able to admit

that and then saying to myself, it's super wise to be able to

say, hey, for the sake of the business, we make this change with this employee

to get them into what is fascinating for them and what is in their

skill set and their strengths. So just last week, I had a meeting,

or was it two weeks ago, a meeting with a leader in a business and

an owner in a business. And basically the conversation was, you know,

where can we put you in this company because you're an owner and because you're

somebody who has a future here and he wants to work in the business where

you are really going to be fascinated and motivated. And they've had a really hard

time finding the right position. And then there was one thing which involved

travel, which involved a lot of interaction, and this person's highly

analytical, and they didn't think he would like that role. But it shocked everybody as

they went through the roles that that would be the one thing. And it was

actually a position where they're interacting with a lot of owners in other

businesses, and they're managing and they're leading and they're building

relationships, and it was pretty. Pretty stinking fascinating. And it would call. Involved probably a

lot of travel nationally as well. But I could just see the lights go on,

man, and I could see everybody else in the room see the same lights go

on. But that does not mean that once that individual starts that job, they're going

to be super excited about it. They have to go back and remember how they

felt when they started and remember that they're going to get there because it lit

something up. And you can do that as a leader. That's a wise thing to

do, to find that and tap into it with your team.

So I mean, and that really points to the one strategy. So the first strategy

being get to what's fascinating for them. And then the second

strategy is you have to own your own stuff in yourself and be

willing to do that. Your own issues, your own failures, and see them as

opportunities, opportunities to grow, opportunities to teach other

people, opportunities to learn. But you will not do it unless you do

make some decisions. One of the worst decisions you can make and is not making

a decision, but making a decision means you're going to fail some. By failing,

I mean missing the mark. We're all going to fail. And then you can teach

and learn and grow from that. And not just because when you make big

mistakes in life, you can do two things. You can start beating yourself up and

say, I'm never going to do that again. But there's probably aspects that decision that

are really learning opportunities that are going to teach you that you want to learn

from and then you're going to want to do that again. You're just going to

do it differently, do it in a different way. So

that's the ownership piece which will inspire your team.

Can you share a time when being your authentic self led to deeper

relationships or better results at work? Well, my

authentic self is somebody that wears hats that say

I poop today. And it's somebody that wears hats to say

that say things like, you know. I peed in your

pool, I peed. In your pool, I pee in pools and I'm a

goofy guy. I like to have fart machines and snakes in my office.

And the friggin cricket, which is a cricket thing, you can put somebody else's office

and it goes off for like two years until they go crazy. Yes, I do

like that. But I would not do that without telling him it's there a year

later. No, actually I wouldn't. But I like that.

And I've realized that in my life when I'm not that person,

I'm really hiding out. And that's one of the things that creates a difficult relationship

at work. You get this feeling that someone's inauthentic. You know, they maybe

they're so guarded and you're not getting to see the Real person, you want to

shake them and say, just show me your real self. Because you don't have to

be so scripted because that authenticity is what I'm going to use

to build trust with you. Because you're willing to let go and just let

go of all this other stuff and the things that you think you need to

be. And that's a real skill professionally that you

can learn. Like you're okay not. Doesn't mean you're not

professional at all. But you're okay being the guy who's light and

who laughs and who is willing to actually be silly and just be yourself.

Not over the top. Because inauthentic people, that really comes out,

people pick up on that quickly. People pick up on that

authenticity as well. So that's really,

I think, crucial. And that's the one thing that I would say

for anybody, if you're going to take it anything away from you, if you want

to deal with difficult people, is don't change who you are. You change

strategies, but you don't change the essence of who you are. And that could and

often does with people that are fear based and

with people that are so incredibly rules based.

I mean, I've had jobs, I've lost jobs in the past where

it's been so metric oriented that they've lost the

potential in me. You know, one company I remember years ago was they didn't

hire me because I failed the aptitude test. And they didn't hire me because I

think I interviewed well and everything. But then years later they were trying to get

me to partner with them and they didn't remember those interviews in the past.

And I think if I would have just let go and not been so serious

and if I wouldn't have actually, if they wouldn't have leaned on data

so much, they would have really hired me probably then because I wanted to work

for the company. And I've hired great people who I believed in them more than

they believed in themselves. And I wouldn't have gotten to that point if I wasn't

willing to be authentic and willing to help them become relaxed and

authentic in that situation. So you're staying yourself around the

negativity is going to pull them out of the negativity because they know you're not

going to change. And authentic people you trust because they're not going to change

based on the circumstances and by the situation. I mean, that's what we do

in coaching a lot of times is we go into the drama and we're willing

to stay Grounded and stay on course, and they get that feeling that they can't

pull us off track. We're going to go back to the core issue and address

it, and that's going to help them get to the other side. We're helping them

make progress, and we don't make progress when we get sucked back into the drama.

Please don't ever put a snake in my office. I won't put a snake in

your office. Thank you. No. Okay. Cockroaches, I might, but

not snakes. You don't have a problem with cockroaches, do you? They're not my favorite.

Okay. The big old Madagascar hissing cockroaches. Yeah.

So, yeah, but that's how it is. I mean, and that really.

It kind of just leads to that. The third major strategy is to be

lighthearted and have fun, and everybody's got fun in them at

different levels. I'm not saying if you're willing to let go

of fear. I mean, like, anxiety keeps you from being yourself. Anxiety is control.

What we don't trust, we control. We're choosing to trust the process,

even in these difficult relationships. And that's going to make

you less serious and put less emphasis on the results

and the outcome. And then you're realizing that your identity is not tied to how

other people treat you. Their response to you is their responsibility. Your response

is your responsibility. You can own your response regardless of how they treat you

and regardless of their negativity in that interaction. You can be positive and

goofy and fun regardless of how they interact. And that's going to give you the

ability in those situations to help them find their fascinating and

mo. And what fascinates them is going to give you the ability in those situations

to pull them out of the negativity. It's going to give you the ability to

lead in those situations. It's going to give you the ability

to really take even ownership of yourself.

Because we're not going to own our own failings and shortcomings if

we're not laughing at ourselves some and forgiving ourselves and being willing to make

mistakes, be willing to learn from what we actually have done. And

so it's kind of like the more you're. The more you want the sale, the

less likely you're going to get the sale. Or if you want to keep a

job so bad that you're willing to do anything, you're not going to be yourself.

And you may even even be a person that would compromise. I'm not saying you

are. I'm not saying that you would, but the desperation

breeds inauthenticity and it makes you miserable. And it makes

you miserable. Yeah. What's the best way to hear someone

else's perspective without losing your own? It

is being willing to say that that person has tremendous value and a

unique perspective. Regardless of how set in my ways that I am be

willing to let go of that. Let go of your assumptions. So you can learn

from a 6 year old, you can learn from a 16 year old, you can

learn from an 86 year old, you can learn from somebody that has different

political views than you, has radically different political

views from you, if you're willing to be curious and to understand,

not in a judgmental way. So I see videos sometimes of people like

marching in parades on YouTube or,

you know, so there's a funny one like that.

Oh, he was like Ali G. I watched these old Ali G videos that

were on HBO years ago. And he goes to this,

this environmentalist, it's like save the trees

kind of thing. And he's going there and he's, it's really, it's humor, you know,

it's satire. He's talking about how much he wants to, you know,

it's, it's. He's talking in a way that he's not supporting the environment, but it's

an example of you go somewhere and you're in an environment

and you're willing to see them as value and, and not to be offensive to

them, but to be curious about them. And I'm not saying I would go march

in parades that just to be irritating or whatever, but,

but it's. The fact is you can learn from other people and that's a really

exciting part of life. Like one way you stay young is you have people at

different points of view and you're willing to stay true to your point of view,

but gather information that might help you learn more about your point of view. Because

maybe there are some things where you have some, some dark spots and you're

not really thinking it through, but it doesn't mean you go ahead and get and

succumb to their point of view. I find that the less, the more security you

have within yourself, the more willing you are to be around other people who differ

than you. And the more security you have in yourself, which that's part of coaching

process, as you find a secure identity, the more you're willing to actually be around

other people who challenge your point of view and not compromise and not be shaken

by that pretty attractive quality because they're going to still see how much you

value them in the interaction, Right? Yeah. And it's really powerful.

Yeah.

So that's it. I mean, you got three things right there. And I want to

go ahead and summarize. So three strategies that you can engage. One is to

help people channel and identify and find what's fascinating to them and help them make

that a part of their job. It's going to make them less difficult in the

workplace. Another one is to take ownership and they're going to sense that in you

when you're willing to own your stuff in the process. And the third is

to be lighthearted, to have fun and let that come out of you. And everybody

has it. It's kind of like everybody's a leader. Yeah, everybody has a sense of

humor. You just have not tapped into it because of your own

stuff. So work on that so your real personality shines through, that's

there inside of you. And it's going to make a difference. People are going to

lighten up. You can practice lightening up just around your friends and family.

Practice it. You probably shock them because you're the one now who's willing to play

games and you're the one now willing to cook and laugh in the kitchen. And

you're the one now willing to crack jokes and do funny stuff and watch the

sitcoms and watch the movies over the holidays, but do it. Try something

new. It's gonna make a big difference in your life. So if you found this

content helpful, you're gonna wanna check out Shatterproof Yourself Light. You can

download. You can get the free version. You download the app and get the free

version. Check it out. It's gonna. It's seven small steps to a

giant leap in your business, in your life, and your vision and

your goals. A giant leap in your Life. It's a 20, 25 minute video

and a worksheet. You fill that out, go through the content, it's going to make

a big difference. But you got to do it and take action. And I can

guarantee you, if you go through that worksheet and you take action to apply

those steps and it's going to challenge you on the worksheet. Take specific actions

as well. It's going to make a difference in your life today. And if it

doesn't, call me and chew me out. All right? But if it does,

give us a rating and review on Apple or Spotify, like this podcast and give

us comment in the show notes. Comment on the episode on YouTube as well.

So there's no positive change until you decide to change.

80% of change is insight. I'm sorry, it's action.

80% of change is action. It's not insight. Insight is what you're getting

today from listening to this episode. The action is going out and downloading

Shatterproof and filling out the worksheet and actually taking action based on

it. So from this content, that's the challenge I have for you, is to apply

something you learned from today and apply it to your

life when it comes to leading with difficult people in the workplace and

in your family and in your home as well, right there and in your

neighborhood. If you have a crazy neighbor, which everyone needs to have a crazy neighbor

at some point in your life, that's going to help you grow. I know, Kelsey,

you've had a crazy. Shouldn't say that right here. I know, Kelsey, you had a

difficult neighbor. They may be listening right here, but you've probably been the difficult neighbor,

too. You've probably been the difficult neighbor. Never me. Never you. Yes, I have been

the difficult neighbor as well. I've been the difficult employee as well. It's a

both and as well. So there's no positive change until you decide

to change. Decide today. Your legacy depends on it. Your legacy is the impact

your life has on other people. To decide means you are eliminating other

options. You're filtering things through, getting out the good stuff, and you're making that a

part of your life you're committing today. So I want to close today the way

I always do. Live the life today that you want to be remembered for 10

years after you're gone. You decide your legacy. Nobody else.

I appreciate you greatly and I'll see you next time.