So a question that I like to ask clients and teams is, what are you

insecure about? Or what are you afraid of? And some people resist answering that

question. And I think they do for one reason. It's because they perceive that it's

going to show weakness to other people if they admit that they're afraid

and everybody's afraid. I've seen that with thousands of people. Then they get

honest, they share things they're afraid of, and it's different for everybody.

But what I found is that when a leader is willing to be vulnerable and

share that, like I'm afraid of that. I'm afraid of failing. I'm afraid of the

business falling apart. I'm afraid of losing relationships,

losing feeling somebody letting somebody down, then that's very

refreshing. It's something that actually empowers people to know, like, you

know, I'm not weak for being afraid and for struggling. So I want to talk

to you about that today in the Decide youe Legacy podcast,

episode 167. Every leader is afraid. Great

leaders act anyway. And there's a great cost

to not actually admitting that you're

afraid and then facing it and pushing through it. I mean, it can paralyze you

with making decisions, which can lead to just a lack of trust

amongst your team. It can lead to people not

trusting you in close relationships because you're not

willing to admit that you have these challenges in your life. You're

paralyzed. People being stuck. Health challenges mean, like losing sleep

because we're worried and ruminating, which I can do, and I'm

not admitting to myself, first of all, like, that's a fear of mine.

And then talking to somebody else, hey, this is something I think could

go wrong. And then they give you a different perspective and help you work it

through. You can have health issues. I mean, just simply. There's a

number of things that relate to chronic stress in our

lives that we. Some that we see, some that we don't. I mean, it can

be over time as well. So welcome to the podcast.

Today we got a special episode for you. And again, the topic, every

leader is afraid. Great leaders act anyway by listening. Today you're going to get three

tools on how you can, first of all, hopefully admit that you have fears,

because it's going to be helpful to everybody you lead and everybody you love. And

also, you're going to leave with tools that you can apply right away that'll make

a difference in your life. Practical, simple things, but it's right at your

fingertips, and that's going to Be exciting for you as you leave here today.

So I'm Adam Gragg. I'm a legacy coach and the founder of Decide

youe Legacy. Started in 2012. And we help businesses

and leaders live courageously. And by the way, everybody's a leader.

So you don't get off the hook if you're saying, like, well, I was a

leader and now I'm not a leader. No, you're. You're being. You're influencing

somebody's life. You have. If you have neighbors, if you breathe, you know, if you

have people you see at the coffee shop, if you have family, people

are watching your life, you know, not through your window, hopefully, but they're watching you.

They're looking at how you live life and you have influence on people's lives. And

that can be incredibly empowering and exciting because you know that

you can have a big impact and you often don't know until down the road.

I mean, there's the long game mentality you have to play, but you're all leaders,

your mothers, your friends, your people in your community. And

my, my struggle here is pretty big with

this topic. I mean, I can go to this all or nothing

mentality. It's going to be either a tremendous success and everything's going to

go just as you thought it was going to go, or it's just this horrible

failure that is never going to be helpful to anybody and it's

my demise. I mean, I can do that. I can be like, my

daughter's never going to talk to me again, or, you know, we're going to have

a relationship like she was when she was six when she just asked me

questions for three hours a day and wanted to always be around me. No,

it's in the middle. It's a. Both. And, and so I thought today it'd

be great to have a leader that I have seen grow

tremendously in facing fears and

dealing with the hard. And so much so

that I don't often think she recognizes it as much as other people

actually do. And her perspective here is going to be really helpful. So her name

is Tara Jost, and she is a leader and owner at Higgins Group.

And we can have her share. I'm going to have her introduce herself as well.

And we have also, Kelsey Torkelson, who is our brand relations

director at Decide youe Legacy does a lot of other things as well. Mainly

keeps me sane and helps me not miss calls that I committed to

making. No, I'm just kidding. Do a lot more than that. But she's gonna

give her perspective and insight as well. So we're gonna go ahead and

jump in. And before I actually do that, I gotta share something that I've

struggled, that I struggle with, a fear that I have faced and what the outcome

actually was. Cause often we think that these fears are gonna come true, and we

realize that. That they're actually not. And so one of my big fears was

dropping my daughter off at college in Boston. She's leaving.

And I will tell you that I have a great deal of appreciation for anybody

that's ever taken a child away to college and launched a child, because

everywhere I look is a reminder of my daughter. It's like I have to close

the door in a room right now because I have too many things. Well, there's

dirty laundry still on her bed that she didn't fold before she left for college.

But I have to. I have to. It really. I'm probably going to leave that

there a long time. Um, but I. It's like everything reminds you of these things,

but it's also a good, great, bittersweet thing. But I have empathy for people

going through certain transitions. You don't know. Like, I've never lost a parent, and

I've never lost a sibling. I've never. I've never lost

a. A really close friend.

Like. Oh, I have lost one close friend. Actually. I have lost one close

friend. But, you know, it's. It's interesting how that that all works and everything. So

we have. We have Tara and Kelsey and. And so, Tara, would you just

share a little bit about yourself? I know professionally,

personally, anything that'd be helpful for the audience to hear. I've worked at

Higgins Group. It's a family company, and I've been there

for over 21 years. I have a background in finance.

And anyhow, I have two boys

from. The Wichita area and one that just had a

birthday. Yes. He turned 26. Yep. Okay. Which one

do you like the best? Oh, good lord. You

can't say that. No. Yo. Oh, seriously, what do you. What do you. What's your

honest answer to that question, Adam? I know. Changes. It

changes. Oh, come on. It does. I know. I. Every day I like one

of them more than the other one. That's honest. That's honest. When we

hit Philadelphia, I could have told you which one I like.

Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah, that. Yeah. So you were on a road trip

out, dropping off your youngest in college. Yeah, it was a long, long drive.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, Kelsey's gonna ask us

questions, and I want you though listener to think of, what

are you most afraid of right now as a leader? Is it something specific?

Is it an issue? Is it conversation? Is it a challenge? What is it

for you? And as we go through this content, you can think about how you're

gonna face it, because you are. I can't force you, but

I'm gonna inspire you. And Tara's gonna inspire, Kelsey's gonna inspire you to face it.

Because it's gonna be worth it to you. Yes, it is going to be. It's

going to be worth it. So we talk about fear

and courage a lot. In fact, our purpose that decides your legacy is

empowering business and leaders to live

courageously. When you hear the phrase every leader is

afraid, what comes to mind for you?

I do not believe that leadership removes fear. I think it

exists within everybody. But I think if you're controlled by that fear,

Fear. I think it, it makes it very difficult to be a leader,

a true leader, especially in a business

where you need action and not to be paralyzed with fear.

I like that. What do you think? I think it every,

every leader is afraid. It just, it just boils down to we're all struggling with

the same stuff. Some people are leaning in and they're pushing through and some

people. Or not. I know, I know for me, I just do not like to

be embarrassed. And I get really ashamed

of myself for behaviors that I can engage in.

So I can just beat myself up and, and

that to me, if I remember that everybody else is

struggling with similar types of things, and if I can admit it, the good people

in your life are not going to use it against you. And when they do

use it against you, you know, so, so I'll be point blank honest with you.

I mean, like, I, I, I have used nicotine

for, for, I used it for a couple years, then I stopped for a

whole year. And then I had

a. Some challenges with my daughter launching and how I was feeling and

everything, and I just gave in. And then I was

terrified of actually having to admit that to anybody. And it's not. I

was terrified, like, oh, I'm failing everybody. I'm feeling so many people like they were

cheering me on. I'm feeling this and that. And then one time I,

I admitted it to one friend and I just, in a good friend.

And that was relieving because he was basically saying, you're not

a helpless, worthless loser because of it. But it's like

admitting that. And then that to me, I thought, like, oh, people are going to

judge me and Think I'm not worthy anymore. Like, my clients are going to fire

me. And you know, and one of my clients actually saw it in my trash

can and kind of brought it and I'm like, this is horrible. But.

And I, and I haven't told friends until recently. I kind of let the cat

out of the bag. So it's been like five, six months now and I'm

struggling and so. But you know, it's, it's empowering to just be

able to share that. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. Yeah. And I was

going to tell you, I have, I have a different girlfriend in four cities around

the U.S. i'm just kidding.

That is not true at all. I'm single. That is

not true. So. Okay. Okay. All right. Let's get

this back on track. Okay. We see people do all

kinds of hard things that decide your legacy. We see them have hard

conversations. They mend their relationships. They have conversations

with their parents. This goes on and on. Yes,

we challenge them to do that. Yeah. But do you think that fear is a

sign of weakness or it can actually be a sign that signals growth?

I don't think that fear is weakness

necessarily, but I do think staying in your fear is

weakness. Like, I think being willing to charge ahead with those

difficult conversations. Yes. That's the only way things get better.

I've found that when I've been held accountable or when I've been

pushed, that's when I grow. And, and, and I've

also seen when I don't hold somebody accountable, I'm actually allowing them

to fail. I'm not helping them at all. And I just. The.

I think people that really care and inter vested in you, they'll push

you. They're not just going to sit there and let you off the hook. And

you know, the people in my life that have done the most for me are

the ones that are the ones that pushed me. They weren't the ones that did

stop talking because of fear, you know. Yes,

that is very good point. That they're telling

you the truth. Like you trust somebody that tells you the truth, even though you'll

like it. Yeah. I think that because you have those hard conversations

and the pushback that you can get, like sometimes I hear

it's so lonely because you may be the only one, yet you know that

this accountability is necessary. And you're the only one in your family bringing

up the hard topic. You know, you're the only one in your family that's saying,

like, hey, you know what? I want to be My opinion, I don't feel like

was included in this planning of this vacation. And I have. I would like to

be included or you're the only one saying, this isn't okay. This is not

okay. We can't. And, And. But then it's so

tempting to be like, well, I must be the person that is wrong here.

Because everybody else and people even like, cliche, like, if you're the only one that

has a problem, you must be the problem. That's not true, though, because it's a

lonely place. And the fear is actually a

sign that. Not of weakness, but because you're actually doing it.

It's a sign you're heading in the right direction in so many cases. Oh, my

gosh, I'm afraid, but I'm doing it. I've seen both of

you on numerous occasions lean in. It's like, holy cow. More. I mean, it's

inspiring to me because I don't know if I would have come on a. On

a podcast or, you know, things that are

at my times where I'm in fear. I don't

want to do those things. Yeah. Awesome. Good job today. Good job today.

Yeah. This was a last minute invite for Tara, actually. And she was like, yes.

So I'm like, that's pretty cool. Very cool. Inspiring, for sure.

So. Well, I'm afraid of

some things. Like, I have a fear of letting people down

and I'm a perfectionist. What's something that

you're afraid of? Personally, as a leader.

I think mine would be the fear of making a decision

that affects other people's livelihoods.

I feel a lot of pride in being able to take

care of or, you know, we have this team and we get to see the

family succeed, and it just feels terrible when it's

the opposite, where they're, you know, they're missing out on something because a

decision that was made by the business.

What about you? Well, I ditto that

I have a fear

of conversations going awry and

spiraling into drama and.

Which is interesting. I personally, I don't have a fear of that

so much with other people's stuff that they're talking

about, but I have more fear with myself just going on,

where do you. How do you drain it back in? And then if you're the

one that's the bearer of the hard topic, and even if you present

it perfectly, you can still have situations like

that, you know, and. But then even in those situations, remembering

that good can come out of that. It's bringing out the core stuff to actually

Be faced in those situations. So I, I mean I'm

definitely have a fear of being looked at as a

failure. I have a fear of being

isolated, which I can put myself in

and being alone and not having

anybody there behind me. That's a weird fear

sometimes I think of. But yeah, being alone

and I mean I can send a lot of it just depends on what I'm

doing that day. But every day there's a fear

like every day there's something in the morning that I

know like this has to be faced today. You know, like, like I

gotta. What was it today? Today it was. Oh,

it's a hard conversation with a client that I knew needed to happen.

It ended up turning out really good. Good. It was.

Oh, it was multiple hard conversations with, with people

right there. I mean yesterday it was,

it was a hard conversation with.

Well, with my ex wife was a hard. That was. But it actually turned out

to be a good positive one. So I mean I'm just being real here like

that and those things can derail me potentially. That was

so it was good though. And, and none of them

were. None of them just went off the rails. Yeah.

Yeah. And I felt excited at the end of the day because

things were talked about. Yeah, some things were talked about. Yeah.

What separates leaders that are paralyzed by fear to those that move

through it?

I just. If you're paralyzed by fear with making

decisions, I just don't believe that you're a good, a solid leader.

I think leaders, you have to take action. I know

there might be a moment of pause or, you know, a time to think about

it, but you have to move ahead. You have to be prepared

to, you know, make a choice and if it's not working, make a

shift or just. But inaction to me is so

much scarier than, than, than I

would never want to be work for someone that couldn't make decisions. Like you're,

you're literally steering this thing and you've got to know which way you're going

and you can't feel like you're with some on a ship that nobody wants to

figure out which way you want to go. I mean, and

how do you know when you've made a decision and then you have

to shift?

I mean a lot of decisions can be measured. And I mean I,

I do think you've got to be willing to acknowledge when it's not,

you know, I don't. It's not effective to just

keep. If you make a decision it's not working and you just keep

trying to Charge down that path. Just trying to be focused on being right.

At the end of the day, you just got to be focused on the health

of the business. And, and sometimes you have to say, I was

wrong. You know, let's, let's start over and

let's make a shift and make a correction. But you're still leading. You

know, you're just taking risk. And when you've said that, you're wrong.

I mean, some people are afraid of saying that, that that's going to be

used against them or perceived as weakness. Have you found that to be the

case? No. I think I respect people when they tell me

that they are wrong. I feel when I just

tell someone I made a mistake, I feel better about that than sitting there trying

to make excuses for it. Yeah. Or be defensive about it because

we're going to make mistakes. There's just no way around it. If we're not

making mistakes, we're not doing something right. We need to be challenging

ourselves to make mistakes. Yeah. We're living our lives.

And I had this friend

call me on my crap. And I think this question, what separates

people that are paralyzed? And it's the willing to, the willingness

to, like, listen to what people are calling you

on and not discount it. Like, I can easily brush things off that people say.

Like, I, I've just seen that more and more in my life. I can, I

can brush it off like, okay, I, I, I'll change that, you know, but not

take it seriously. And he said something about how he

didn't use this word. He was kind about it. Not as kind as he could

have been, but he's my friend, Doug, and it, basically that I

embellish things and I had, I

embellish and exaggerate. And he's called me on this before,

and it was like, dude, you're right. Like, I, I feel like I

embraced it. I know inside of me, it sunk in

for the first time in the ch. It's, it's like now I'm

not discounting it. And so

that great leaders, they,

they face stuff like they don't ghost people.

And they're gonna have the conversation like, you, you call you,

you ask them for. To call you back, and they call you back. Or if

they don't, they apologize because they missed. But they're, you know, like, I

have, I have people that I just know, like, they're gonna call me back. I

mean, like, they're gonna follow through with this stuff. And that's a great thing

when it comes to trust. Like it's such a big deal. And if they mess

up and they share a no with you, and they share a yes with you,

and they share a maybe, like, can I have more information? Gathering more information. But

it's not this. I gotta have this smooth conversation all the

time with people or else I'm gonna avoid it. No, they're gonna face

it. They're gonna do the thing. And so the first tool here

to work on dealing with fear as a leader and embracing

it, taking action, is to, I call it overpowering your

fear. Knowing that in your life you have ways that you can, through

reading good books, through being around positive people,

through listening to podcasts, through listening to books,

through having conversations with people, through sharing

your fears, through engaging in your hobbies that rejuvenate you and

help you clear your head, that you can do things that, you know, start to

get the train on the right tracks again. When maybe

when you're struggling, you're not doing it so much. No, I know for me, when

I'm not reading consistently, I am vulnerable to being consumed

by fear. It's a big deal. So

it's like the saying you say, kelsey, I mean, you are who you hang around

with. And there are people in my life, I know that if I interact with

them too much, it's going to feed my fears. And there's people in my life

that I know when I interact with them, they're going to help me actually see

hope and actually move forward. And

that's the people I want to spend my time with. I mean, it's not that

I'm going to always be around those people, but you try to find ways more

and more to be around the hopeful people, and then it ends up

being this for your own ability

to lead. Well, you know, you can't be around some people just in doses.

You have to be around them. And then those boundaries are really important as you

move forward. So that's a big tool. So you figure out ways you can overpower

it and know that you have some great tools available to you at

your fingertips if you want to. It's a choice to engage that

stuff that's going to start filling you with hope and get rid of the fear

rather than stop talking to those people. You know, it's like,

what are you. It's like, well, you're. You're doing it to yourself

because, I mean, you come home and you've had this time with. It could

be family, and, you know, they're just all negative and they're filling you with fear.

And you're wondering why you're struggling when you come back? Well, what are you going

to do next time you have that time with your family? That's going to preserve

your. Your health? So are you going to make

an effort to read every day for two hours? Because, you know, or, you

know, go exercise and listen to a book? So that's a great tool for you

to actually engage. So Kelsey's gonna ask more questions as

we go in a little bit different direction here, and we'll go to the second

tool in just a moment. So what are some typical

situations that leaders look to avoid? I know that I

like to avoid scheduling things and

making commitments. What do you see leaders avoid?

The one I see the most is leaders avoiding tough conversations.

Yes. They just. I

think they're. A lot of times you're driven by your relationships. And so

when it comes to hard things, you know, it's easy to take a

bonus check in. It's easy to high five a great outcome. But once

you've got to address a bad behavior, a decision or something that just

needs to change, I see a lot of leaders

avoid it. I mean, how do you encourage leaders to have those

hard conversations? Just reminding them that once

you have them that it actually it is. That's the way

you're going to get a improvement or a better outcome or, you know,

or just this. That's what leading is. Leading is being able to step

into the difficult things. It's not just being a cheerleader on the sidelines.

It's. That's so true. It's tough sometimes. What

about you, Adam? Oh, so I find that

the tough conversations. I feel like addressing behaviors

is harder than addressing strict

performance standards. So you like a behavior, meaning a bad

attitude or somebody that

is not having the hard conversations or somebody that's

tends to. You don't feel like they're focused when they work, but you

don't have anything concrete because those are a lot more subjective. And so

it's harder. They have a lot of ammunition to defend themselves, so they go through,

you know, scenarios. And I mean, having those

conversations are hard because you get more pushback on them. But they're so crucial.

That's the accountability part. That's so crucial because you're. You're getting at

the real core in that situation. Uhhuh. Right there.

Because a bad attitude, a bad. That's gonna spread. And I find.

Yeah, sticking to a schedule, being focused. And

I'm very. Work. I'm working on this as well.

Being. I also find it people are afraid to make decisions. Like just make

a decision here. And. And then the thing that helps me is having a courage

coach that I can call somebody. Like, I'm gonna make this, have this hard conversation.

Can I call you right afterwards? Like that. That's really helpful because after

the conversation for me, I can spin in my head about how it actually went.

And if I call somebody else and they talk me through and my friend Ben

is one of the people that helps me with that. He's kind of my go

to a lot of times I had the conversation. Well, he's cheering me on, you

know, play the long game. It was a good conversation. You're gonna

be okay. You know, you're doing it. And even if it was bad and I

really messed it up, he'll start, he'll try to help me find the good out

of it. Like I just. I'll say. I'll say, Ben, you know, I had the

conversation, but I cussed him out and told him they were

horrible and everything. And he would like spin it in a way. Well, everybody's

got a bad day, but even that you can go back, make it right, you

know, So I mean, I think that's so helpful for me

when the things I avoid to have that person I'm going to call man in

the moment or right before, right. After,

for some reason I doesn't bother. And hard

conversations I welcome. The ones that I struggle with are when

you've had them before and it's. They're very difficult to communicate with.

Like you leave the conversation feeling like you didn't really get

anywhere and it was ineffective. I find the next time

I struggle with going and having that conversation again.

The next time around. The second time around is hard for. Me

because you can't get a better outcome the second time around. It.

I haven't experienced it out. Really. Yeah. Maybe

getting people on the right day, catching them on the right day. My catching them

on the right day. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes helps. But in general, I

find when I've had difficult ones, that's the ones I struggle with.

Oh, those fierce conversations. I have a great other tool.

This is a side note here, but. So I had a conversation with somebody today

and he had sent a long email explaining his

challenge with somebody that he's addressed something with numerous times.

And first thing is I wish they had a conversation on the phone. That would

have been great because it gets through the fluff of an email. But

then if I was going to advise this person on how to redo that

conversation because he was like, it's never going to work. It's never going to be

good. It's never. You know, that was. Well, didn't say that directly, but that was

what was kind of expressed. And this happens frequently. I mean, this is like a

10 times a week kind of thing. I'm exaggerating, but it happens a lot. Leaders

that they have. I can't. I can't get through. I can't get the message through.

And it was a really short, simple conversation, like. Well, did you give them an

example specifically of that behavior? Well, I really didn't. I just kind of

shared my opinion. Well, sharing your opinion often breeds defensiveness. But give them a

specific example. Share. Share how you feel like, I want to get to the. I

feel like this is not going anywhere, and I want this to get to the

bottom so we can resolve this. You know, how do we resolve this? And just

that short, sweet, simple. How do we resolve this? How do

we resolve. That's like such a great way. It puts it on them.

And you're still having the fierce conversation because you're still addressing the issue

at. Yeah, yeah. So

we find that people that do well, they want accountability.

Why do leaders resist accountability? And what shifts do they lean

when they lean into the accountability?

I think that sometimes leaders think they're beyond accountability.

So they don't. They just. They think it's their job, it's

focused on other people and not. And I think that accountability

should be throughout the whole organization

at any. In any level. And. And because the

reality is, is the only way you're really growing is when you're being pushed.

Right. And that's what accountability does for people is it

challenges them even if you're doing something well.

Right. Somebody holding you accountable and pushing you keeps

you moving ahead as opposed to stopping right where you're at, just because you're.

You're already doing it just fine. I know. I'll tell you that

Adam is one that is very much into accountability.

You make me do things that I don't think that I think I can do.

All right. Yeah. I think Lloyd would agree as well,

probably. You know what I'm not always great at? I wait and

I can wait. I mean, I'm getting better at that. But that's one of the

failures that I've had at times as a leader is not wanting to

point it out, say, okay, because a great thing as a leader, if

you don't have good accountability. If you have good accountability, you don't. They

know you're going to address it. So there's that. And you don't have to deal

with nearly as many issues if they know, if they know they can. Not that

they do this intentionally, but if they know it's a culture that there's not high

accountability, then they end up having to address a lot more issues. And it

doesn't spread throughout the organization because your whole leadership team is holding

everybody accountable and willing to actually. Because I believe

one of the big, big reasons people resist is because they just change.

It's going to require them to change. It's going to require them to admit something

that is hard because it could be just a habit they've developed over the years

of control, which is safety. And they have to let go of that if

there's a level of accountability because they're actually relinquishing some of that control

in that situation. I mean, it's all, it's kind of all on you. Who wants

to be pinned down? You're pinned down when there's accountability. Like you said, you're going

to do this, you didn't do it. What's up? I, I have noticed in, when

we work through accountability, a lot of times it really kind of

pulls to the top. The people that you already kind of know, that

they struggle. Yeah. And it, when you start holding, I mean it almost

like, it's almost like highlighting the behavior once you start with accountability.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. You know, you can see it. But I, I did, I

will say that I think if you soften on it, trying to get it back

is difficult. When you have the same team,

it's like at home, if you're. One week you're letting

your kids do whatever they want, the next week you're really strict. It just doesn't

work. Like, you do have to be very consistent and it's really important

if you want to be a well run business. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. And I think some leaders don't embrace accountability because it means,

it means they have to hold other people accountable as well

because they have to model it. At that point they're admitting that this is an

important thing. And I'm gonna, you know, and that's the thing. That's the second

tool if you want to deal with your fear and start taking action is to

start giving accountability a hug. Like embrace it and say this

is gonna help me and help other people. So I had

a, another leader recently who struggles with setting a schedule.

And I've had this a number of different times. It feels like, it feels like

everybody I do coaching with at some point, they're like, how do I make my

schedule work and stick with it? Because I'm easily

swayed towards this and towards that. And so that,

as it was addressed and talked about, it almost became

this, wow, I can. I don't have to think about nearly as much stuff and

make as many decisions when I know my schedule is driving me. I've made this

commitment to myself. I don't have to justify it, rationalize it, defend it. It's

already in my schedule. And so I'm going to go ahead and close my door

and do this task, do this project, and then all the time to do this

and this. And that's why meetings that have a clear ending and on end on

time, you know, and you don't have to be perfect about that because there

is times where they go over and everything. But you have this strict schedule. So

if you're going to work out, you're going to get up, you can go to

bed, you stick with it. And it's very empowering. It's like a carrot

rather than a stick. We can look at it. That schedule is a stick, man.

It's like ruining my life, man. It sucks to have that. Now I

got to do that stuff. No, look at it as a carrot. It's going to

actually free up time, empower you, empower other people as well. And

so when I have people at the end of a coaching session or at the

end of a leadership development session with a group, it's like those

same actions, the same things, the same. It's like when accountability, you know, what are

you committing to doing? When are you going to start? What's the deadline? How are

you going to measure this? How are you going to know whether you did it?

How's someone else going to know whether they did it or not, whether you did

it or not? And the third one is, what do you perceive the success

to be like in this situation? When you follow through with that, so you made

a commitment, what do you think success is going to like? And sometimes they say,

well, I think it's going to be a crap show, you know, or a crap

shoot. Like, I don't know what it's. But they can picture in their mind that

this could go well and this is what it's going to look like. And you'll

go into that interaction, you'll go into that thing that you're committing to

engaging in with a better attitude about it. So I do want to go back

to one thing here and I think there's one question to still ask

and it's, it's this, it's this

drift that I noticed, and I

definitely noticed that. And yeah, if you could go back and ask that one question,

Kelsey. Oh, yes. Positive and negative change are both

processes. I can see myself whenever I'm

starting to drift towards bad behavior.

How do you know when fear is starting to get in

the picture of your decision making and how do you deal with that?

I would say I would notice. I would start complaining a lot.

Not sleeping very well, feeling a lot of stress, not having

a clear direction of where I'm headed. Just, you can

just, you can just tell, you can just tell you're out of sorts. Yes.

Yeah. Do other people notice that in you as well

that know you well? I would imagine. I would imagine.

So. Do they have your permission to hold you accountable when they see

it? Of course. Of course. Okay. I had one of those days

today, Tara, and I had to be held accountable by someone. So

I get it. Yeah. And I, I think I noticed that.

Oh, I'll do, I'll do all kinds of things to justify avoiding

whether it's, I'm gonna, I deserve to stay up later.

I deserve to eat that, I deserve to, I need that to

replenish myself. I start even wanting to

buy things. Like, I'll start getting consumed on a new golf club or

something, you know, and sometimes that's good because, I mean, I can go,

I mean, oh, they're both. And that can be really good. But I

definitely know that, noticed that when I'm going into a bad place, I do mind

numbing things. And I'll rationalize those mind numbing things as being good

for me. Not necessarily, you know, and very good at

rationalizing them, but I know they're not the best thing for me to engage. I

also procrastinate a lot too. Start putting things

off. I, I know, I, and so in procrastinating, I mean, I definitely get

more perfectionistic. The more perfectionist I get, the worse I am to relate

to. And the more I'm drifting into the

fear that's driving me. Like, it's got to be perfect. It's got to

be practicing things. But I'm still not

okay with like a document that has 20 spelling errors on

it. No, we are not. No. But I mean, I, I,

I bet there is a level of like, it's okay, it's not going to be,

you know, so. But then my embarrassment, fear triggers with that.

Then I'm like, so, so the, the Third main

tool that I'd encourage you to embrace, to recognize the

fear trickling in is to recognize that drift in yourself in

advance and embrace the accountability. So give people the ability

to hold you accountable when they're starting to see it. So what are, what are

you starting to see? Well, they, maybe you start, they start to see you cutting

out early or they start to see you taking

really long lunches, or they start to see you starting to fixate on

something at work or fixate on things going wrong. Like you said, complaining.

Complaining is often fear driven. Like, rather than solving the problem, I'm just going to

spend time as a. Serves a purpose. It's like worry can be the same

thing. It serves a purpose. It's like safer than solving the problem. It feels that

way at least, but it's actually not. So. I heard about this study

that it was from, well, the big bank Wells Fargo and not a study this

in the, in the. Historically, I think this was 10, 15 years ago, something like

that. But they had these millions of accounts that were opened

up on clients without their permission and

people were basically padding their sales to be able to say they opened up

this number of accounts and they actually hadn't. And it was against their

culture, it was against their values. I mean, obviously it was within the culture, but

through thousands of people lost their jobs through this. And people were just shocked, like

Wells Fargo. And I remember my parents banking at Wells Fargo.

I, I'm hoping Wells Fargo is corrected. This, I don't know. They're, they're

not a bank that I do have a lot of interaction with. But the fascinating

part of that is they had these values in the organization. There was behavior

that they didn't think anyone would ever actually engage in. Falsifying, I mean,

fraudulent account opening, that's a big deal. But it wasn't just

one person. It was throughout the entire culture. It was actually expected by the

leadership. This was going to happen from some leaders. I mean, in thousands of people

were caught. And it was a huge deal. And it shows you

when it comes to your health, when it comes to your leadership, when it comes

to making good positive decisions, your spiritual life, your family life,

it's a drift away from engagement. And if we can recognize it in the moment,

we're going to turn the ship around. But it's very subtle often,

which is a huge deal. Like this one client who said that he actually adjusts

his schedule frequently. That's a sign of drift for him. You

know, he was just saying that, that, you know, I need to embrace

accountability. I'm going to get accountability right away. And that to him was really empowering.

It's like an eye opening moment. I can recognize this now because I'm not really

feeling it. I'm actually maybe feeling really great about my life because

I'm, I'm drifting is allowing me to not be as well behaved, so.

But I'm not seeing the negative consequences of that. And then turning the

ship around before it goes off the rails, well, that's really

a bad metaphor. But before it crashes into the shore,

goes off in rails, shifts and rails. The train turning the train around

before it goes off the rails. So that's a really, really big

deal, so. Well, I've also noticed that.

I notice I. At home a lot is where I let my stress out.

And so I might be more inclined to behave badly at home than I do

at work. Just, you know, I'm frustrated and so I'll go home

and get mad about something that has nothing to do with anything

anybody did. And what I've tried to do is I know I do it,

but I'm trying to be quick to apologize because I still think

I'm. I'm not perfect, but I'm modeling behavior to my kids to

show, you know, even if you're not perfect, you know, the next step

is acknowledging it and grace is important and. Oh yeah,

you know. Do you think they recognize that? Yeah. Mom stressed about something at work

and she's like bringing it home. Oh, yeah. It's funny because

I've always been very hard on my kids and they're in return, hard on, hard

on me. Like, okay. They don't hesitate to say what happened at work today.

Really? Yeah. They don't. They don't. Do you get defensive in that

point? Like, nothing happened at work. Work was great. I'm just pissed

at you. Yeah. I continue on with being mad about the

laundry. This is the problem. It's not. Yes.

This one sock. Dude, that is such a. That's such a. That's

an avoidance tendency. We have to focus on something we can control because

this other thing. Yeah. Recognizing that, wow, that's

powerful. I know. You do that too.

Yeah. So, yeah. Can you think,

well, let's go ahead and kind of wrap it up. So this is, this is

great. I mean, real world stuff people struggle with when it comes

to fear. And I know this is going to be really

helpful content. I mean, thanks for sharing real stories, information. How could

somebody reach you if they want to dig in deeper onto this stuff or

get more information on how you can, you know, how they can grow in this

area. Tara, you could email me. My email

is

tarajigginsgroupinc.com

okay. Share your fears with Tara. She will

help you deal with your fears. So your inbox is going to be flooded.

Exactly. Yeah. So I had a. Like I said, a fear of

embarrassment. So I had this situation where I was playing in a golf tournament. It

was a senior golf tournament. This was two weeks ago, and we played on Saturday

and Sunday, and I played okay on Saturday. And then I was teeing off, and

a bunch of people watching me tee off. And I have. I'm not a great

golfer. I'm a beginner golfer. I'm kind of first time taking it seriously right now.

And I just totally topped the ball and it went,

like, didn't go far at all, so. And I was. I was just. I was

embarrassed about it. But then I'm thinking, I gotta breathe. I gotta model this. It's

okay to fail. And so then I went and took another shot because we were

playing our ball. I mean, there's nothing. We're scoring. And then the next shot, I

did the same thing. And then. So I tee up again. And I didn't tee

up. I. I followed my ball. But it was like, I'm. I'm. I'm not even

past, you know, the ladies tease on this. I'm like, this is so embarrassing. And

I mean, in the. In the senior group, like, age 51, I'm like the

youngster here. So, like, they're looking. I don't. Anyway. But in the pro

was watching me and this. And then I went to hit it again. I did

the same thing. It's like three bad shots in a row. And then I had

to take a deep breath and say, you know, and the guy that was with

me, I didn't even know him. He's just like, just relax. You know? And that's

not really what you want to tell somebody when they're anxious, but I hit a

better shot, ended up having a good time and everything. It wasn't the worst case.

What? You know, they didn't kick me off the golf course. That's kind of my

thing. You're excluded from this course. You're so bad. You're so bad.

You're so. Anyway. And, you know, it's kind of

good thing for me to remember it's not that big of a deal.

Avoidance is really the worst thing you can do. Worst thing I could have done

was just say, I'm not playing this hole now I'll get a 65.

But you had to play your ball. It was like your commitment. So I stuck

with it. It was a commitment that I had made to saying I'm gonna, I'm

gonna play. It was a very first hole that just kept me going. I had

17 more holes and I ended up having a really good time. So in summary,

go ahead and tools you want to embrace to deal with your fear

Overpower the fear. Think of ways you can do that today where you start to

read the books that inspire you and listen to the podcast and do the stuff.

Be around the people that are your courage coaches. I mean recognize

when you're starting to drift and turn the ship around swiftly.

And then the final is to embrace accountability. I know I'm a little out of

order there. Embrace accountability. Give your accountability people in your life a hug.

So if you found this content helpful, check out Shatterproof Yourself Light. Hit the

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this video. Share your thoughts on it as well. So

you'll make my day. If you take action. There's no positive long term

change unless you take the insight you have gleaned today and you take one

action. So take information from the day and say I'm going to do that. Put

it on your calendar. Tell somebody about it, but do something about it. To

decide means you're eliminating other options. And your legacy is the impact your life

is going to have on other people. So you

decide your legacy. Live the life today. You want to be

remembered for 10 years after you're gone. You decide your legacy.

No one else decides that for you. I appreciate you greatly and I'll see

you next time.