Psychologically, when you are in a situation

where you're afraid, you don't listen

well, because why would you listen

very well when you think you're in significant

danger? So you don't do a lot of things well when you're afraid? So if

you are fearing rejection, something bad

happening, a person hurting you,

then you become guarded. And when we're guarded, we don't have to worry about actually

listening very well because we're going to run, we're going to run, we're going to

freeze or do something different. It's not necessary to listen well in that situation,

but it causes a big problem. That's why we have to prepare in advance

for situations that could be triggering to have a script

potentially. It's why you prepare to speak, because it triggers people. But when you let

go and you just speak and relax, but you still have your outline, it's a

great thing. People that listen well, they have a

superpower. Leaders that listen well, that's their superpower.

And there's a lot of people out there in this world that don't feel understood.

They don't feel like people hear them and listen to them. You can be that

person in their life as a leader that understands them, that

takes time for them.

So welcome to the Decide youe Legacy podcast. Today's episode is on Listening

is yous Leadership Superpower. I'm your host, Adam

Gragg. I am a family therapist. I'm a

legacy, a life coach, a leadership coach. I founded Decide youe

Legacy in 2012. And at Decide youe Legacy, we help businesses and

leaders live courageously. And

FYI, everybody is a leader. You influence your neighbors, your friends,

your family. You're in a role, any position of influence. And I have a great,

wonderful guest. He is another legacy coach at Discovery, Inside your Legacy, Sherman

Orr. And he's going to chime in today. So say, hello, Sherman. Hello,

everybody out there. I hope you get a lot from this podcast. Okay.

And so this is. I struggle with listening. You know, one reason I struggle,

Sherman, is because my emotions are very strong.

And people will say often that I don't. Some will say I

show strong emotions, some will say that I don't. I really feel

passion, very strong emotions inside. You know, if I like

something, I really like it. If I don't like

something, and I'm afraid I can carry that with me. And I don't even

always see it because I'm not self aware all the time.

And that's something I have to work on and be aware of. Every day,

yes, you have to do that. Because every day

we're called upon to listen as a leader in every situation,

whether it's at work or at home. And. And it's very easy to become defensive,

dismissive, and to engage

in all those really dismissive practices.

And that's a time when we have to stop and slow down and maybe ask

the question, why am I not able to hear? Why

am I not really listening to what this person has? Is that a struggle for

you? It is a struggle. So oftentimes when somebody will

come up to me, especially in my new role as a

legacy coach here, continuing coaching, when someone

asks me, wow, what are you doing

now? And sometimes it's a very positive question,

and oftentimes it's negative. And when I hear that

negativity in that question, it makes me want to say, oh,

they're judging me already. And so I need to just move on and get

away and become defensive instead of just saying, open,

honest, vulnerable conversation, man. If you can have the heart of

peace towards somebody and remember it's their issue, it's just noise,

it's their insecurity, it's that. And not take

it personally, then you can listen when you're defensive. I know for

me, then I really don't listen well. In fact, I think about how I can

escape or how I can defend my position. I'm not listening at that

in that situation. Fight or flight. Fight or flight. And how can

you. The best connections you ever have with people

that I ever have found is when I stick it out

to get the meat of what they're trying to express,

and they feel understood, and I feel like I've understood them.

And the connection actually occurs. What a great thing.

I mean, connection is where it's at. And I can't. I'm not saying

it's easy, but I'm saying it's absolutely 100% possible if you work on it.

And we're going to talk to you today about how you can become a better

listener. Real experiences. This is going to make you more money

in your sales job. It's going to keep your employees retained longer.

It's going to help you to interview at a much better level.

It's going to help you to increase

revenue, even increase revenue, decrease stress, give you more

sleep so you don't have to deal with the anxiety that comes from not listening

well and not feeling as if you got somewhere in your meetings,

in your relationships. It's going to strengthen you across the board. As you've said,

Adam but also in your friendships, in your

relationships, within your family. Because this isn't just business.

This is like everything. We're in a world with 8 billion

people. 8 billion people. And it's grown a lot in the last hundred years,

for sure. So something we do at every episode is we

share a fear that we have faced over the last week,

and we do that to inspire you to face your fears,

because nothing is more important to your

progress and confidence than facing your fears.

And nothing is more damaging to your confidence than playing it

safe, ultimately. And something that I have done

recently is I. I faced a fear by

having a meeting with a business leader that I didn't. That

I wanted to avoid. And Sherman knows why in the details,

But I knew that being around a

specific person was going to trigger some very strong emotions in me,

both good and bad. And I was doing all kinds of things

to actually avoid it. I had the meeting. It actually went much better than I

thought. And it didn't get. It didn't go south. It.

I felt insecure. I did. I don't know if I looked insecure, but

I felt at times insecure. And it just triggers some feelings of me that I

don't have very often. And I knew that running from it wasn't going to

be the best decision. And I'm grateful for friends, and I'm grateful to myself, but

it feels good because my confidence increased from it. I don't know if

I'm totally over the hump, but I feel like I. Made some progress, made

significant progress that way, and that's the same thing in my own life. I

am not a handyman by any stretch of the

imagination. And owning a home can be stressful at time, but I've

had a great group of friends that have been helpful to me, fixing

doors, H Vac, whatever happens to be. Well,

I knew this person was beginning to have lots

more work on their plate, but I needed to ask them to help me do

one more thing in the house, which was going to be a big project. And

I was dreading this conversation because I kind of knew in the back

of my mind that, darn, he's going to say no.

But I said, I have to have this conversation, too, even though

I know, because maybe he's going to surprise me. Maybe he's going to say, oh,

my three houses. I can ignore them for a week and help you. But

I asked the question. He was like, oh, I'm so snowed under. And I

was like, dang, that's the answer. I was afraid I was going to get.

But it's okay because now it's like, all right, he does have a good reason.

He's not abandoning me. He's doing what he needs to do. I'm like,

okay, yeah, the gut information now. And it's hard to get bad

information, but actually it's much healthier for us emotionally to get

the bad information. Yes. So if somebody, I mean,

even Wednesday I got some bad information from

an employee that I didn't want to hear, that was shocking in a way, but

it was the right information. It was a brave conversation. It was brave on all

fronts. And it was information that freed the business up to know what.

How we're going to get certain needs met that we can't get met from this

specific employee in this way any longer, at least for the time being.

But it was an honest and good and healthy conversation. So we have three big

ideas for you as a leader regarding listening. You're going to get to take away

and apply right away in your life. And so the first big

idea that I want to share is that they are not the enemy. The person

that you're talking to that could be triggering you. That makes. In your

mind, you're saying, in your own, you're probably justifying it at times saying, well,

they're going to make me feel bad or it's. They're going to share something with

me, like your friend, that's going to make me feel bad. But ultimately you're

externalizing the problem as somebody

else besides you. When it's. It is external to you. You

don't have to. I mean, even that strong emotion that you feel is external to

you. You're having a feeling of jealousy, you're having a feeling of insecurity. You're having

a feeling of excitement and joy, and you're. But

it's external to you, and it may not be based on factual information. When you

recognize that this. That

you can. That emotional reaction that you have

is coming from you, then it gives you some power. And then you can start

owning it yourself and saying, well, what am I going to do to dig deeper

with this feeling? What is it about the situation that's leading me to feel jealous?

What are the facts of the situation? What is it leading. What is about the

situation is triggering my anxiety. And then you get to dig deeper. I mean,

illustration happened yesterday situation with a

business leader and having. And the spouse of the leader came

in, which we do that from time to time because, you know, personal

relationships impact leadership performance. So we were going to unpack some situation.

And this leader had a difficult business

challenge that was involving a lot of money

and millions of dollar situation. And it involved

some attorneys and on both sides. And it was.

He was coming home from work and not communicating with his wife

about what was really going on inside of his life in his head. And so

she felt isolated from it and she felt like he

didn't trust her, I would say, in a way, like trust her

to be able to handle it in a healthy way. And he,

as he could see that in this case, she

wasn't the enemy. She was someone that wanted to support him and if they could

get to understanding. She left believing that his

big fear was that he didn't want to expose her to stress.

And he also felt like he was letting her down by having this business

stress that he was dealing with. When she wanted to support him, he was having

trouble believing that. But I. There was some tears shed. I mean, it was a

really powerful situation because they felt some understanding there. But he had to realize

he wasn't. He was. She was not the enemy. And the enemy was really

within himself, how he was dealing with that situation. Exactly.

So that was the breakthrough, is he was willing to listen

to what she was really saying and realizing,

no, she's not the enemy. She's actually my partner in life

and is going to be supportive. So in our culture today

and in our world today, it's so easy to polarize everybody. Instead of

saying they're not the enemy. The enemy oftentimes, as you've just said

in this first great big idea, is often in my

own head. Yes. So that I shut people off. I

don't listen, I can't hear what they're saying. I

immediately say, no, whatever inside my head, or

other things, thousands of other things that can go on.

And if you don't recognize that,

if you recognize that it's within yourself, then you don't have to get nearly as

defensive. It's something external to yourself that you can actually start to deal with. Yesterday,

business meeting. I'm giving you real examples because they're fresh in my mind. I was

feeling like I wanted to run from an

interaction, a situation. I mean, like literally I was feeling that way. But if I

can recognize that this is my past coming up inside of myself,

then it's not the actual current situation that is the enemy that I have to

be defensive in. It's actually this. This hurt part of

me that rises up that I can recognize and say, that's the past

coming into the present. Situation, I don't have to listen to that or react to

that. And if I can be aware of it, then I can do something

different. Then I have some power over my emotions. I can still handle

them and even not try to impress people

when that might be. My go to when I'm anxious

is to prove my worth. Big deal for

myself. And I had some victory with that. So the second.

The second big idea is to get past the

surface when you listen. You're gonna find listening to be a very

productive activity if you realize the power in getting past the

surface where you can solve the real problem. If I'm listening

to people and as a counselor for over 25 years, I mean, lots of people,

and you as a pastor for over 30 years, you've listened to a lot of

different people. And it can be easy to want to go

and skim over the actual core issue, because that may trigger me.

There's something called transference. Countertransference is a

process where we can be triggered and not want to go deeper because it relates

to something in our personal lives. And then we're transferring that to the

other person because it's something that we're unaware of in

ourselves. And if you get past the surface, then you can solve the

real issue. And that is amazing. It's amazing what happens

when you listen. And I can be.

Well, I would tell you that addiction and excuses and

avoidance tendencies that I can actually have are because

something in that situation where I don't want to have the conversation is going on

inside of me where I'm going to go ahead and become a workaholic, or I'm

going to become just fixated on something else outside of myself, because

I don't want to actually face that specific core issue. And I do it every

day. I can do it often. But if I

am willing to listen to them, then I'm going to see that

what they shared is a core issue that we can dig deeper on and they

feel understood. So yesterday, in fact, even today, a

couple situations with clients where they would share some

family dynamic that's causing issues or a personal

fear that they have that they just allude to that's causing them issues to not

go deeper. And if I don't go ahead and pick up on that, like, what

is so scary about making sales calls, or what is so

scary about holding your people accountable that I didn't

really listen if I wasn't picking up on that to ask that deeper question? Right.

Just like you said today, I mean, being able to listen to some

folks for a bit. And it was all very surface level in the very

beginning, but they were watching, and they were. They were

watching us listen. And as they saw that, then

they. When we would ask a question, this is what

we hear. Is this the issue? And they were able to say,

well, that's part of it, but it actually goes so much deeper. And they

were willing to share that with us because they saw us listening and

they were willing and we responded back to them. And then they said, okay,

here you're listening to me. You can hear me. This is

our issue. And you're providing psychological

safety. Yes. You're making it safe to connect. And you do that when you're

willing to be vulnerable yourself, which I find that the leaders have to go

first in being vulnerable, in being available to other people themselves. So

you share about a struggle that you have. I mean, I'm sharing today about some

insecurities that I have that go. Go deep that I've had to

face. I mean, I had to face them yesterday, had to face them today. I

had to face, actually, a lot of them over this last week. It's been a

big week. Think about this week and think like, yeah, okay, do I want to

share that with you? In a way, I kind of do, because there's freedom in

just being honest about your struggles, and I'm not succumbing to these things.

It means that I'm able to be more aware of my own self so

that I have power over it. So that's really encouraging to me, actually. But

I can avoid. And I can make so many excuses, and I can act like

I don't have issues when I actually do. And sometimes I have more issues than

anybody else, and I probably do in my own head. You know, it's.

So one question will lead on to the others. You miss so much if you

don't actually listen. And. And it takes away your anxiety when you practice

getting below the surface because you're picking up on the real core

problem, and that's going to connect you with people in such a deeper way,

more than you ever thought possible. Some practical things you can do

to create safety is be willing to reflect back

what you hear. It sounds like you're saying this. It sounds like you're saying

that. Am I understanding you correctly here? Is this what you were trying to say?

Powerful stuff. Staying silent and letting them talk more and

more can create psychological safety, meaning they feel safe to connect with you

because you're willing to listen to them longer and they're Going on and on. But

you're channeling it in with deeper questions. Yes. Or I mean,

open ended questions. Open ended questions. Right. You're actually picking up on what they said

and asking them more. So we had a sales conversation

over the last week with the business and they said that

picked up on something about delegation.

And that conversation

could have led. It could have been just grazed over.

But Sherman picked up on the fact that it was a

deeper issue, I think. Well, I picked up on the fact that it was a

deeper issue and it was one where there was a whole bunch of potential

to discuss. Well, what is going on there? And you can think of that with

your kids. I bet you experience that where your kids want to gloss over an

issue and then you have the ability to actually ask for a deeper

understanding in that situation. Or you have a

spouse that maybe wants to gloss over the issue and not go deeper. And they're

very good. And people do become very skilled at actually staying on the service level.

Right. Distraction, defensiveness. Yes. I'm

busy. I don't have time for that. It's amazing. Let's

sweep it under the rug and we'll get to it maybe next year. Right. And

your good friends and the people that really want to help you and the coaches

that you hire that really want to help you, they're not going to let you

do that. Yesterday I. This is a crazy thing, but I had a client that

I challenged with her busyness because it was consistently

I challenged to say, you know, hey, sometimes this is my perception. I could be

wrong, but it seems like you're too busy for me to

challenge you between our sessions sometimes, especially when it's on these

specific topics related to this issue that I perceive.

And just so you know, I disguise the genders of my clients

sometimes. So if you're listening out there, I may be talking about you and I

may not. There's a lot of consistent, common problems. Avoidance is

one of the big ones. Even for these high performing, successful people. They avoid in

areas where there's the most. The most discomfort. But we don't want you

to do that because we know there's going to be a breakthrough at the other

end of that process right there. So the third,

the third big idea, and this is really a

big idea when you think about it, because you may not actually think of it

this way, is to put intentional time into practicing your

listening skills. Because for most of you, listening can bet

you can. I bet you can relate. You want to talk about yourself at

times. You want people to understand you. And it doesn't

seem like they're going to understand you better or what you're trying to sell

or what you're trying. The point you're trying to make if you're just listening

to them. But I would challenge you to have

conversations even when you're trying to get to know a new business.

A lot of business leaders listening out there, you're trying to make sales, you're trying

to build relationships. But if you listen to somebody and just get to know them

and ask about them and their personal life, and you don't make any kind of

sales pitch, you don't make any kind of ask, that could be a very

valuable interaction. I'm not saying you don't have to ask. You do have to ask,

because that's why you're in business. You have to make revenue, but ultimately you're in

business to help other people. Sounds a little bit strange sometimes, but you're

building that level of trust. And if you're listening, and I'm not saying to

anybody listening, that you don't have to ask for the money, because you do, because

you won't have a business if you don't. And you can see it's a both

and, and you can see that there's great value in an understanding. You're going to

get that ripe opportunity. You're still going to have to take it, and you still

might want to avoid it to actually get some new business. But you're still going

to want to say, hey, can we get this proposal to you? And

let's talk it through next week. It still has to happen, and it's a very

important thing to happen. And you leave

them in interactions where they feel valued and heard, your kids, your family,

it's going to have a huge impact. You have to practice listening.

It's something that, of course, I've been doing my whole life, is

practicing listening. I haven't been always the best

listener because oftentimes I kind of like Adam

said, modalities, and you kind of already know where this is going and

you're formulating your answer before they finish talking, and it's

like, no. And I noticed about probably 10 years ago that

I wasn't able to listen very well, and

it continued to get worse and worse and worse. And I

finally decided I'm going to go see an

audiologist and see what's going on. And

I'm probably now one of the most outspoken advocates

for hearing aids that anybody would know. And so I went to an

audiologist so that I could listen better.

They call them hearing aids. But hearing is,

most of us hear lots of things. Your brain blocks out 90%

of what you actually hear. But listening is a

skill, it's an art form. And so I was recognizing the loss of

hearing was impacting how I could listen. And so I

really went in there and I said, what can I do? I

don't know what's going on. And he was, he explained everything to me and

said, you're not too young. I was under 50 when

I got them. And he said, you're not too young. Get started early.

And I love it because now I can

hear and that helps me listen better, even

though there's lots of people out there that need it. And one thing or another,

whether it's maybe vanity or whatnot, I don't care.

And 90% of the people don't know I have them, but they're

absolutely necessary. So you have to practice

listening, not practice hearing. Practice listening. The hearing aids actually

helped you listen? Yes, because I could understand

everything they said, whereas beforehand I would miss words from

time to time. And I just like, this doesn't make sense. And you can be

prepared to listen. In sales, handling objections

is a very valuable skill to know what those objections are going to be, because

you've created a list of what they might be. And when those

objections come, like it's too expensive, or

we're not ready because we need

more time to make the decision, or we need to see your

references, we need to have more information on the roi.

And those things can be valuable information for them to have, but

they're also objections that you can handle. So what is it about the ROI

that you need? You have follow up questions, questions to answer those objections.

What is so expensive about it? Or what do you feel like the

value would be if you engaged

to deal with that expenditure? And if they can say

wholeheartedly that it's, well, if I spend $10,000, I see this

making us $100,000 over the next six

months, well, that's gonna answer their question right then. But you only would have gotten

to that if you listen to their objections. One of my buddies, Luke, who is

really good salesperson, he's told me today, because we were talking about this very subject,

says, I love objections. I love objections, you know, because people will come and

say, well, you're 15% higher. He owns a signed business, by the way, so you're

15% higher than the signs that we've priced out in this

market. And he says, yeah, you're right. You know, because we

offer this and this and this. It gives them a chance to answer that objection

in a way that's going to convince them and show them the value.

Objections are necessary for someone to understand the value. So you can

practice that. You can practice. What are you going to do when someone's

defensive that you're supervising? What question are you going to ask them? How are

you going to listen? How are you going to listen for understanding? How are you

going to stay calm? You practice by dealing with your own anxiety as you step

in. I had to practice dealing with my own anxiety in the situation I

faced yesterday. I had to know that in that situation, I'm probably going to have

this tendency to want to. Not to want to do X, Y and Z. When

I know the healthy thing. If I am confident, then I'm going to do this

and this and this. And so I could think of those things in advance and

say, well, I'm going to have a game plan and have fun and be myself.

Because that was the challenge for me in times where my little old Adam comes

out. I'm not myself, dude. I'm not. Because sometimes people don't get to know me.

Like my family, for example, you know, I've lived as a.

In a certain way sometimes with them, and I let my. My true colors come

out. And sometimes they're shocked because I'm extroverted. You know, I feel

like I care about people and I want to help people, but I'm

also not the person that I've been in other

situations around those dynamics because of not

being. Because of not being courageous, because of being anxious.

Can you think of situations where you may. Could really use some

practice listening, Sherman? Oh, every day. I mean,

I think it's always. What are the triggering situations where you're like, okay, I can

practice an advanced listen in that situation because I know it's going to come up

for me. Oh, I would say definitely, like you said in sales,

objections to what we do and being able to go

through it and have those at hand to be able to say, okay, when

you say this, that, or the other thing. And then it's. Part of it is

they have a real objection. I've listened to it. What are they saying?

And then being able to say, like an ROI or anything like that, it's

like, well, here's. I hear what you're saying. You're saying,

your return may not be as great as you want, but the thing is,

this is the. A magical product. This is going to help

you in every part of your life. And that's why I'm here. Yeah.

Getting to the point where you can know what the real problem is so that

you can solve the problem or offer them a solution. But you're only going to

get there if you listen really well. So in a sales conversation, hopefully, I

think, I mean, I don't know how much time we spent talking. I spent

talking today, but I would hope it was

they talked 70% of the time, maybe.

And if not, then maybe I'm not doing the right thing. I'd say it

was 40% of the time, but they were

talking because they knew both of us were listening.

It was very powerful. I thought you thought they were talking 40% of the time.

No, we were talking 40%. We talked 40 and they talked 60. Yeah, that's

probably a good ratio. Yeah. My self awareness is not always great with

that. I can be a talker and I am an eye on the disc. That's

what I do is I can talk too much. But the

challenge too, with me not wanting to practice is because

I want to get my point across and I want to get across efficiently

and I want it to get across quickly. But that hurts me because

I'm not understanding what the actual real problem is. And I'm making it about myself,

not. About them, which, remember, you're

the enemy. They aren't. I know. So big stuff,

big deal. I had.

I had some situation that I want to wrap things up about.

Listening is. Well, daughter's away in college and she's had

some struggles based on just. She goes to college in

Boston, you know, and she's been there for a month and a half. We talk

weekly. And she's been telling me again and again, like, it's great. I'm having such

a great time. And I believe her. I mean, she, she would tell me if

she was, and I definitely trust that. But this week it was a little bit

different. She said she had a hard day on Monday and Tuesday and I asked

her why, what was going on and tried to listen, tried to understand. And at

first she said nothing and this and that. And then

luckily I listened to some friends who were helping me to understand what

kids go through their first semester of college and how being alone can be a

challenge. It's my only daughter, never experienced this before, but

I dug deeper and I shared about,

first of all, my struggles and how a lot of people will struggle

when they're doing something new and it can sneak up to the on them and

it's all. It's my, my experience. I shared my,

my challenges I've had with change and new things. And then she started to open

up, and she opened up in a pretty deep way. It was like

she's struggling with just the change of being

an adult. And it came. And what is that like? I

got to ask her some more questions and more questions. And then what happened is

I was talking to Sherman and Kelsey because I shared with

them and I listened to their feedback and they asked me some questions to

get more depth of the interaction. And then they encouraged

me to go out and visit her, which, it's my birthday coming up. And so

I decided that I was going to go and say, hey, I. I would

love to come out and see you. We can celebrate my birthday. And she was

really excited about that, you know, and I'm, I'm, I got a ticket to go

out. I'm going to go out for three days, two nights in Boston, celebrate, get

some good lobster, have a good time, get to see my daughter. Haven't seen her

in a month and a half. It's a long time to not see your daughter.

I mean, there's never, never not seen her that long in my life. Of course,

be in the same room with her. That's a, That's a big deal. That's really

interesting. So that's really cool. But I would have only really gotten there if I

listened to Kelsey. I, I told myself this morning, like, I would not have done

that had I not listened to the wisdom of other people. Because I was in

a high anxious mode. I didn't even want to look at the text. You know,

I didn't even want to actually deal with it. I was running from that situation.

Yes. Because I had other situations to deal with. I mean, but that's the most

important thing I could ever do. And thanks to friends,

I got to a really good place. So if

you found this podcast helpful, something you definitely want to check

out is what Sherman? I would say

decide your legacy, you'd. Want to check out. Decide your legacy, you want to check

out yourself. Check it out because it's, it's

a. It's seven small steps to a giant leap in your confidence, which more

confidence you have, the better listener you're going to become. We talk about relationships and

anxiety and emotions and fear and self

care and just having a vision, focusing on the right stuff,

your value in yourself. You want to check out that course. It's just 25

minutes, a brief worksheet. You go through that. It's going to give you

really valuable tips and tricks and connect a lot of this information,

especially when it comes to your confidence and how that ties into your listening.

Check that out again at the link. Hit the link to shatterproof

yourself light and it's gonna give you some valuable

information. So in closing, let's just go ahead and wrap this up. Three big

ideas that leaders you can grasp as you

to become a better listener. First is they are not the

enemy. The enemy is inside of you. Second is listen to get past the

surface. Don't be a surface level type person and then practice

your listening skills. Big stuff. Good stuff. Check out Shadow

Proof yourself. You'll make my day. If you subscribe and

you leave a rating and review on Apple or Spotify, you can go ahead and

give us some feedback at the end of this. On this podcast as well, we'll

interact with you. To decide means that you're eliminating other

options. Your legacy is the impact that your life has will have once

you are gone. There's no positive change until you decide to change

and taking action is 80% of that change. You got

insight inspiration from listening today. But nothing's going to happen

with this unless you do something. So make a commitment to do something.

Apply it from today on. Listening I want to go ahead and close

the way I always do. Make it your mission to live the life today

that you want to be remembered for 10 years after you're gone. You decide your

legacy. No one else. I appreciate you greatly and I'll

see you next time.