Have you ever noticed that most of us,

most people, we know there's a hard conversation that we should have,

but we keep putting it off. We don't do it. I mean, it could be

with a co worker, a family member, somebody we're

walking on eggshells around, a friend that we feel

disconnected with. We avoid these conversations because

we, I believe we don't want to make things worse and we

don't want conflict, we don't want rejection. You know, and

ironically, that avoidance, it feels a lot safer

than just having the talk. So it also

quietly creates resentment, it creates distance, it creates

anxiety. A lot of consequences to it. So here's what I've

learned. The problem isn't that we don't know how to

have the hard conversation. I mean, there are some things that we

need to learn and refine and everything, but it's that we don't want to make

a few key decisions before we have the conversation.

Those key decisions can be painful, but they give us the inspiration to

have the hard conversation. So today we're going to talk about these three key

decisions that will dramatically increase the chances that

a hard conversation goes well.

First, identifying why we avoid the conversation in the first

place. Second, preparing not by rehearsing what we're going to say, but

by planning to listen. We're going to talk about that, talk about all three of

these. And third, it's the commitment. Scheduling it, committing it, and

doing it. Even when fear shows up. And it will. The fear will show up.

So this isn't about perfection. It's about choosing courage over

comfort and action over avoidance. So let's go ahead and dive

in to this episode of the Decide your Legacy podcast. It's on

how to stop avoiding dishes. Difficult conversations.

Three decisions that will create change. Because that's what we're looking for.

Change. That's why we want to have these hard conversations. So welcome to the Decide

youe Legacy podcast. I'm your host, Adam Gregg. I'm a coach and a

family therapist. I'm the founder of Decide youe Legacy, founded it

in 2012. And we help leaders and

their teams face the issues they're avoiding.

Why? So they can take productive action and make

progress personally and professionally. From my

point of view, everyone is a leader. You influence.

Leadership is influence. You influence your neighbors, your kids,

your family, your coworkers. It's influence.

That's what it is. So joining me today, I have a

special guest. He's a friend. His name's Troy Tressel. He is

the founder of Trestle Media, the CEO of Trestle Media,

and he has a new podcast himself. So.

And it's really great. It's called Strategic

Motion. Strategic Motion. Yes, Strategic Motion. And

I wanted to have him on this episode because about a month ago, I

believe he had a hard conversation with me. It was really casual, but basically

what he said is, you know, because I would. I would actually show up to

the studio late, sometimes unprepared and not ready. And he

said. He said, adam, you know, I generally char

something like, I generally charge people for this time. Like, it's an hour block of

time, you know, and Troy's a personal friend. And so I think it was a

hard kind of topic to broach, but he did.

And since then, although I didn't like it at the time, since then,

it's challenged me to be more prepared and to show up early

and, you know, since then, have I been better? You have been better. You show

up on time and prepared. And prepared in the

podcast, I feel like might be getting a little bit

better because of this. Yeah. And that's good. So it is. So,

Troy, will you share some things about yourself personally and professionally, kind of to get

this thing started here? Yeah. So I own

Trussell Media, which is a video production company.

We do everything from website videos, client

testimonials for businesses, commercials. We

also have the podcast room, which we are sitting in now, which I

started about three years ago when I. When I least

started leasing this space, we started the podcast room. But

we have all kinds of people coming here for the podcasts.

Different things like political podcasts, to.

I mean, we've talked about. There's been pro wrestlers

in this room. Wow. Like, I'm glad the table's still here. Oh,

yeah. You know, they might have gotten in a fight and broken the table. They

didn't actually pretend they weren't gonna wrestle.

They weren't wrestling in here. But, yeah, I don't know. You put a couple of

them in a room, they're fired up. You never know what's going to happen. Right.

So. But yeah, the podcast room has been really great. I've gotten to meet a

lot of different people in the community and. Yeah.

So can come and record about personally.

Personally, yeah. Tell us about yourself. Well, so I'm married.

I've been married 16 years. This past October was

16. We have five kids. Our oldest is

15. We're from Shreveport, Louisiana. Yeah. And so we

moved up to Wichita in 2011 when our

daughter was 1, and then we had four boys

after her. So we have five kids, one girl, four

boys. Yeah. That's cool.

That's. I know. There's always something going on at the house. I know. Did you

ever think you'd have five kids? Kids, was that. No. So when my wife and

I first started dating that first year

while we were engaged in three or four months,

and then got married the same year we started dating. But that summer,

we went to my aunt and uncle's 50th wedding anniversary and

there were. They were sitting up at the front table and

their four kids were with them at the table. And then

in front of that, it was just all the grandkids and there's

like 20. 20 something grandkids. And we were like,

man, that'd be nice. Like in. Yeah, because we knew we were getting married. It's

like in 50 years. What if we looked out and saw that?

You know? And so that day we decided that we were

going to have four kids. Okay. And then after our fourth

was about one year old,

my wife is like, she came to me and said, I think God's telling me

we're gonna have a fifth kid. Okay. And I was like, no,

no, no, he's not. He's. God hasn't told me that.

And. But sure enough, yeah, we. We had a fifth kid and

we were hoping for a girl, but we got another boy. Yeah. Okay. Don't tell

him that. When he's old enough. Maybe. Maybe. Okay. Okay.

So what I'm gonna do today is I'm gonna ask Troy questions related to this

topic of having hard conversations and then address these three

decisions as we go. So a few things here about hard

conversations. They're unavoidable because you're going to eventually have them. It's just

if you keep waiting, you're making a small problem a

huge problem. So the avoidance always costs more over time.

The goal isn't perfection, it's courage. It's clarity. It's getting

the change, it's starting the change. It's connection. I mean, keep that in mind.

It can be very helpful. And so another thing is these

three decisions anyone can make, you know, you. You will see that you

can make them. And I want to show tell you too. Like, there's a link

to a one page worksheet that goes along with this podcast. You can jot down

some notes. The way you can download that worksheet is through the show

notes for the YouTube video of this podcast. So it's about having hard

conversations. You're gonna wanna do that. So some of the costs of not having Hard

conversations, continued misunderstanding based on assumptions,

not clarifying things. You know, you start demonizing other people rather

than getting to know them because assuming certain things about their

reaction, which can, it's kind of objectification. So you get

tons of stress, loss of sleep, damage to your health, physical, mental health.

The costs are significant. So let's go ahead and jump on in.

So have you ever noticed that how when you are starting

to contemplate that you're going to have a hard conversation, you can justify and

minimize and just tell yourself like, it's not a big deal, I can do it

tomorrow, I can wait. Or it's going to be, you know, they're busy right now.

You know, I'll wait a month because it's Christmas time or it's New Year's time

or it's, you know, you're just doing things to make excuses. So, Troy,

what do people usually say they're afraid of when

they're avoiding. From your perspective, when they're avoiding having. That tough

talk, I think they're afraid of the,

the reaction that they're going to get from the person. So

it may. You play all these things in your head, right.

You're assuming things and you really don't know

what the person's reaction is going to be. And in my

experience, most of the time, once you have that hard conversation,

you've played up so many things in your head to make it

like worst case scenario, that really most of the time when

you have that hard conversation, it really wasn't that bad. Even if

it goes bad, it wasn't as bad as you thought it would be. Right. Even

if it goes bad, it can still not be the worst case scenario

that you've. That you thought created in your head. It was totally kind

of. So what's really underneath and behind that fear,

in your opinion, that people have? I.

I think it's just

fear of being rejected. Yeah. Fear of

not knowing the outcome. Yeah. Yeah. Fear of

maybe it getting worse

by bringing it to light. So then it would be to hide

from it, Right? Yeah. So

the strong emotions, like how will. Because I

think it's. How will I handle it if I don't get the reaction

that I want? I don't know what their reaction is going to be. And I

don't want to feel those feelings of discomfort. So I'd rather

just not be. Have the initial discomfort

that you're gonna have. I mean, it,

it doesn't make sense, but that's really one of the things that can be

motivating is to say, like, what is it? What,

what, what is kind of the cost of

this, of not addressing. Can you, can you kind of share, like,

how, how does avoidance hurt us long

term and, and how might it protect a short term.

Yeah. So in the short term, you're, you're

staying away from the conversation so you feel better about it. Like, oh, I'll get

to it. You're procrastinating, basically, you're doing.

Yeah, yeah. And that thing you're doing instead might be kind of

enjoyable, that you. Yeah, right. Yeah. And you're telling yourself,

like, you know, I'll get to that. You know, I'll, I'll set aside time

for that and do it when it, when it's crazy, when it's crucial

and necessary. It's crazy. I know, I know. And even something

like, I don't know if you find this true, but if I'm going to. And

I tell myself I'm gonna have, I'm make these calls, I'm gonna have these hard

conversations. Then all of a sudden, something I really hate doing becomes appealing, like, you

know, washing dishes. It's like, I'll just do that. I gotta do that before. Oh,

yeah, you know, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna go clean the car, I'm gonna wash

the car, you know, and I may not like doing that or wax the car

or something. Like, oh, man, it's like. So, and

it. What changes when someone gets honest about

the real reasons that they're avoiding?

I think things come out right.

Like, truth comes out once you start talking. Somebody starts asking you

questions about why you're not doing something,

then the truth comes out. Yeah. And the truth, a

lot of times, especially in avoidance, it can hurt.

You know, I had a

recent interaction with some friends that were asking me some tough

questions, and I was in a spot where I couldn't avoid

and the truth came out. What do you mean you were

in a spot where you couldn't avoid? Well, I was in a,

I was in a. Basically a business meeting where

I, I couldn't run away. And so I was getting asked some tough

questions, which was good for me. And the, the truth

came out in those tough questions. And how did that

impact you? It lit a fire under me

to, to actually go and, and make things happen.

Okay. Without getting into too many details there, but. So why should

business leaders, yourself, others that listen,

should they take this topic seriously? Well, I think

you're missing out on things in life by

avoiding. Whether you're trying to have

a hard conversation to mend a relationship or you're trying to have a hard

conversation to get further down the road with somebody in

business. I think you're just setting yourself

back if you're avoiding it. So if you don't have

the hard conversation,

then the longer it's going to take you to get to where you're going,

especially in that relationship with that person, or maybe it's a

business transaction, it's going to take longer to get fulfilled,

those types of things. So here's the first decision for you to

make is to identify why you avoid

and to identify, you know,

to identify why you avoid. So if, if you can break it down

and dig deep and say, well, here's how this situation is

connected to something else. I'm just assuming that this is going to

go bad. It's not necessarily the same situation. Like

for example, I had a hard conversation. I had a number of hard conversations when

I was in California with my family recently. Yeah, we talked about that

and. Yeah, and so the last episode I told you I was going to talk

to my sister and have a hard conversation. And I did talk to my

sister. I waited and procrastinated on that one. I didn't have it the next day

or even the day after that, but I did have it. And then. But I

had a hard conversation with my parents and it was centered around.

And it was with my two siblings. It was centered around what would happen if

mom passed away, what would happen if dad passed away. What do you guys

want in the future if you're both really healthy like you are now?

And it was very difficult. I mean, it was like, wow,

my mom had such a strong reaction and my, my dad had a strong reaction

too. But we had it and it happened. It took an hour and a half

and it actually ended up being a very positive interaction. And we're going to follow

up on it hopefully, but it's going to be. It's difficult. So if you

identify why you avoid, you're getting self awareness and then

you're going to be less reactive over time because you know, it's not

this current situation. It's related to a past situation.

It will. It's important to remember that

avoidance isn't weakness. It's like procrastination

isn't weakness. It's not that you're a weak person. It's just telling you

there's some pain you need to face. It's telling you that there's

growth. There's a really great growth opportunity ahead of you

if you face things Here and it'll help as you practice it.

So that's the first decision. I mean, it's a difficult

one. I mean, to really step back and look at your life. It's

uncomfortable. It's what you went through when you mentioned that business group or

the business meeting, you know, they were asking you hard questions. So have you

ever noticed that, Troy, people in a hard

conversation, when they come to you, they'll kind of storm in and, and they'll

harshly start up the topic and then

it kind of goes south. So why do most people prepare to

talk instead of being prepared to listen? I mean, in that

instance, it could be coming from anger. Right. And they could be

storming in, like wanting to get their point across and

wanting to have the first and last words, maybe,

you know, so they're coming in guns a blazing.

But I also think in that situation it's,

you should come in curious and maybe wanting to ask

questions so that you can spark up a conversation instead

of just drilling your answers that you've already prepared into

somebody. So, so if you come in, you storm in. It's much, it

feels less vulnerable because you're prepared for all the different things that they can say.

It's vulnerable to be prepared to listen because you're letting go of

what you don't know what they're going to say. But then you can go much

deeper in the interaction. Yeah. So it's a safety thing,

you know, have you noticed that also it's hard for you

potentially to listen, yet

it's, you know, it's like more people are prepared not to

listen than to listen. So, so what does it practically look

like in a hard conversation? To listen 80% of the time? Yeah.

You just have to shut up and not talk. Then

that's really hard for a lot of people to do. Very hard.

Especially if someone's coming at them,

you know, guns a blazing. If you're the one who's bringing up the hard

conversation, if people aren't actually used to that,

you're, and you're not prepared to listen, you're not going to go deep

with it and it's just going to stay on the surface level, most likely because

it's agenda driven and I just can't. It's kind of powerful to think like, what

if I go out to lunch with one of my kids or one of my

friends and I just have this. I'm going to listen 80% of the time.

If people aren't used to that now it's like. But to

me, I Know for you listeners, you know, that'll take away

so much anxiety because you're taking your

agenda off the table. And you can go into business meetings that way, you can

go into sales calls that way. You're just trying to understand where they are and

you're getting past the defensiveness because they're starting to see that you just want to

understand them and you like them and you want to help them.

But why is it so counterintuitive to do that? Is the question.

And how, how do you think, Troy? Because I've noticed this and this is what

I'm mentioning. How do you think listening lowers the defensiveness

in other people when they know that that's your posture? I don't know.

I think it's really hard for people to, to actually sit

there and listen

80% of the time because people want to talk. But I think there's power

inside being silent. And so when you ask a

question and you're able to. When you ask

a question in a hard conversation and you're able to be silent and let the

other person talk and actually think about what they want to say in

regards to that question, I think that can be really powerful. And

it kind of lets the defense down. If

you're the one bringing up the hard conversation. If you can be silent, it

lets the other person think, gather their thoughts and then

give a good answer to the question. You see it melting

away, right? Once you get to that point. That's what happened with my

parents is once they saw and I had to tell my sister at times

I said, and I was kind of blunt like, listen, let's listen. I challenged her

to that. I challenged her to listen 80 of the time and she likes to

chime in. And my brother did a really good job of listening. He's pretty

good at that, actually, believe it or not. So. But I could see

their defensiveness stop. I made one mistake in that interaction and

I asked them if they'd go to this coffee shop by my parents house

and they didn't want to go because they were. They thought we were going to

meet at their house. I should have prepped them with the fact that we'd go

somewhere else. I wanted to go to a public space where there were private areas

because I felt like it'd be less reactive. Oh yeah, because

there are other people around there in the situation. So. But that was not. That

was a mistake on my part. So what are a few questions that, you know,

if you're listening, that you can ask that could help someone

Feel heard. For example, for me, a couple questions are

like, just saying, what's your perspective on this? You know, you share, hey, this

happened. We, you know, mom, dad, you know,

this is subtly brought up at times, but we've never really talked about it,

about what happens if something happens to you, mom or dad. What's your perspective

on this? You know, where do you sit on this topic? Do you think

of questions that can be helpful for you? Yeah, that's good. I think in

a conversation, after you've been listening for a while, if

you can repeat kind of what that person has said

and then ask them, am I hearing you correctly? That's powerful. Is this what

you're saying? Am I hearing you correctly? And I think that's.

That really lets somebody know that, oh, you're listening. You're actually listening to

me. That is a big deal. So the second decision here it is, is

to plan in advance, to listen. Plan in advance,

to listen. That's preparing is good, too.

Preparing, but very basic information. You know the topic. You, you share

an example, you ask, you share your feelings about it, your concerns about

it. You ask them their perspective. This shifts it from control

to curiosity. And I like to journal and write

out a few things before I go into the conversation. That does help me. Except

I even put that off often. And I

know for I was planning on having this conversation with my sister, kept

putting it off. But once I was able to look at my notes on

it and go and look, because I had written

some things down, then I was able to actually handle it with more confidence. It

became a lot lighter for me. And even to see that says, like,

just listen, Adam. Just listen, Adam. You know, it's pretty amazing

how that works out. Being heard matters more than being

right. And if people know that you hear them, then they're going to start

letting their guard down. So what would you say, Troy, is one of the biggest

challenges. Love to ask this question, people that what's one of the biggest

challenges you've had to overcome? And how

did hard conversations relate to that

situation, putting you on the spot here?

Well, I'm thinking of, like, a recent interaction I had with one of

my kids. The hardest thing

for me with the kids is

knowing how to address the hard conversation.

Right. Because being a dad, I don't want to say

the wrong thing and lead them down a wrong path. But

recently, one of the kids, they, they fired me up

and I had to walk away from the

situation. And my wife was like, hey,

you really need to go patch that up. You need to fix that.

If you're the one that left the situation

abruptly and the kid is hurt

by it, you're the one that needs to go patch that up. Because I

went to my wife and was like, you. You need to go talk to them,

because I just. I just can't do it right now. And she was like, no.

Like, if you're the one that. That hurt the feelings or.

Or did the wrong thing, you're the one that needs to go patch that up.

And so it took me 10 minutes, 10, 15 minutes to

actually have to calm down and get myself in

the right mindset and go

apologize and finish the hard

conversation we were having in a positive

light. How did it go? It turned out okay.

I mean, I think. I think there was still some hurt there,

but. But we both came out of it

better. Is that with your daughter? No, it was with one of my boys.

Okay. So, yeah. Yeah, it's usually

with one of the boys. Okay. When it's a hard conversation

like that, so. So it's been a challenge. I just have

one daughter, and I saw her, she's almost 19, and we were

having dinner as a family at a restaurant, and she.

I don't know why I did this, but I just had these moments where I'm

compelled. And I asked her if she had been wearing her retainer.

This wasn't good. Are

you paying for the retainer? Well, I mean, I paid for the braces.

I mean, at least I paid for half of the braces, so. And

she had the braces from age 12 to 15. So it's been

a while since. It's been off in, like, three years. But she

responded in a way, kind of defensively. Yeah.

And in my mind, I felt justified and rationalized it, but it did

trigger the fact that I need to talk about

this topic of me and my relationship with

her. It was. I was wrong for that. I mean, I was wrong for

bringing that up, but it did trigger me to say, like, I got

to connect with my daughter and talk about our communication and. Working on it. Yeah.

And I remember in that thought about, like, it'd be really great, Emerson, if

we have got our own family counselor to help us with

our communication. And she agreed to that, actually.

But it led to a good conversation. And so

why do you believe? Because I believe. I believe that if you don't commit to

it, like your wife challenged you to commit, if you don't commit to it, you're.

It's probably not going to happen, and it can just go on and on and

just wait. And it never happens at all. So why don't

these hard conversations happen unless you commit?

Because you'll just keep putting it off. Yeah. If you

don't, you say it all the time in your podcast, like, you gotta. You

gotta take action and you gotta commit to doing something.

And, you know, I have a business coach, and he tells me the same thing.

He's like, when are you gonna do it? What time are you gonna do it?

And you need to write it down. Yeah. Because if you don't, and I'm a

list guy, if I don't have something on my list, like, it's not going to

get done. And so if I have to have a hard conversation,

it needs to be itemized on my list that I'm crossing stuff out that I

need to get done. Because if I don't do that, I'll just continue

in my head making up stories to why it's good that I can put it

off. So what's the likelihood if you write, write it down that you're going to

get it done? Oh, 100%. Really? Oh, yeah. Just by writing it

down? Just by writing it down. Even without accountability.

Yeah, I'll get it done. You'll get it done? Yeah. It's crazy. Okay.

That's pretty. Pretty cool. Yeah. And some

people will often say, well, I'll get it done eventually, and I'm

going to get it done, you know, once I have the time or once I

get my CRM, my set up, or once I get my

thoughts aligned or once the timing's better because it's no longer the holidays or

whatever. So what do you say to somebody else who says,

like, I'll. I'm waiting to get it, to get to.

When I feel ready. Yeah. You're never gonna feel

ready to do a hard thing. Yeah. There's.

There's only so much preparation that you can do to take action on

something. And if you're just.

You're just making excuses. If you can't, you say that. Yeah. When you say,

oh, I need to do this before I do that. And on and on and

on and on, you're just making excuses. It's like a

good friend of mine told me to. I have a hard time making

sales calls. I loathe making sales calls. Yeah.

And my friend was telling me the other day, like,

there's no bad time to make a sales call. You just have to make them.

Yeah. Period. Because, I mean, you don't know what the other

person's doing. You don't know where they're at in life. You don't know if they're

at work today. You know, we're around the new year. Like, just start

making calls. Just do it, do it. And the crazy part about it is

you feel energized, even because you did it. Like, at the end of

that, you're like, I did it. And I feel like I can handle this again.

And I learned some things here, even if they were bad. Yeah. So the secret

is doing it when you don't feel ready. Right. And you're building

this plane while you're flying it, or you're building your house while you're living in

it. You're still living in it while you're redoing the kitchen. It's okay. Yeah. And

that's just how it's always going to be. Even

whenever, if you're always. If you're growing, you're still going to be building things that

you don't feel prepared to handle or live in or fly.

Yeah. Especially in business. And a lot of. One of the

things I tell a lot of my clients is, you know, with video, if you

want to start a podcast or you want to make some videos, start a YouTube

channel, any one of those things.

Your first few, I mean, it could be your first 20,

they're going to be terrible. But you just got to commit and take

action and do it. First few podcasts, they're just not going to be great. Yeah,

you're going to get better, but. You'Re going to get better behind the microphone. You're

going to get better in front of the camera. You just got to commit.

That's inspiring. And do it. Yeah, it's super inspiring. So

how do you. How does take an action regardless of the outcome? So if you

say, dude, your first three podcasts are going to suck, but let's just get them

done. Yeah. You know, like, how does that build confidence

in people? By sucking like that. Kind of counterintuitive, you know what I'm saying?

It is because people are going to see that stuff. You know, they're going to

see those first videos, and so what do you tell them? So as you get

better, you can use that to your advantage later on down the

line. So you can. If you're telling other people, you know,

hey, I got this podcast. It worked really great for me. You

know, a year down the road, they could tell somebody the same thing,

and in their podcast, they could say, hey, you should go back and check. Watch

my first three episodes that I did, because they're pretty hysterical

now compared to what we produce today. That is crazy.

But you know what? If people like your podcast, they go listen to those episodes.

Right? I know. And that's kind of because this is 184th episode of this

podcast. I think they're going back, and every day people are listening to number one

through ten. Yeah. And like. But I don't necessarily think. I don't listen

to number one through 10. They're probably not your best content, but.

Okay. I mean, that's cool. So should I redo

number one through ten? I think you should redo them. Well, not. Not

redo them and don't replace them. But like, redo them. Just say, go

through the content again. Say, hey, you know, 104. 184

episodes ago, we had episode number one. It was on this topic. And we're just.

We're going to review it again in May of 2020. That's when

it was done. So six years later. I know it was on anxiety. I remember

that, but so. Because I was so anxious doing it. So what's the real

win when a hard conversation doesn't go

perfectly or doesn't go well, even?

Yeah, well, the real win is just you took action and you did it.

You know, you actually faced your fear, you punched fear in the

face, and you actually did the deed.

So whether it went well or not.

Yeah. I think you can cross it off your list and you did it. You

may add something else to your list that says, you know, may need to

revisit that again. Yeah,

but I mean, that's life, though, right? That 100 of the time

it's not going to go well. No, but it's

probably going to go better than you think it will and. A lot better than

if you avoided it. Exactly. So. And I think about the

timing involved, and that timing is important. So

the timing. You tried to have the hard conversation, but they said they'd

rather wait. Well, at least you brought it up and they're thinking about it. Yeah.

So there is something to be said about that. Anyway, now.

So third. Well, I would also say one of the real wins is that you

had a chance to help somebody by bringing up

this way that you could help them or by bringing up this topic

that you were curious about, and they started to think about it. They started

to step back from their life, and then that can lead to change

in addition to the fact that you just did it. And you can say, like,

I did it. I mean, there's big gain in that. I want to get better.

But I'm going to focus on that gain, not the gap, as Dan Sullivan would

say. So the third decision is schedule it, commit, and then actually

do it. You move it from insight to action.

That's big deal right there. So you get courage and

it grows as you take action in the midst of not having the

certainty in the actual results. So if you

can challenge other business leaders to do one thing to grow here,

what would it be? Troy, Take action. Make

sure that if you're not a list

guy, however you plan to take action,

whether it's scheduling it, just take. Action,

Just do something. And so which of these three decisions you believe is the hardest

for most people, Whether it's to figure out why

you're avoiding, to prepare, to listen, or to take action,

they're all hard. They're all pretty hard when it comes to, you

know, I got. Yeah. What's

hardest for most people? I don't know. I would say

preparing, because once you

decide that you're not going to avoid it anymore, then you have

to actually prepare to go into the conversation. So I think

that for me, that would probably be the hardest.

And especially deciding to listen because we all like to talk and

it's hard to just sit there and ask a question and wait

for an answer, you know, and doing that 80

listen. So that would probably be the hardest part for me.

Yeah. Yeah. I would say for me now it's the

prepare part as well. For me, it's the hardest and the part that I put

off the most. But for a long period of time, I just didn't know why

and didn't want to reflect on why I avoid. And

so that would be really hard. So it kind of depends on where you are

and your own personal growth when it comes to having

conversations. Because that self awareness, if you don't have that, that like

I'm avoiding not because of reality in this situation, I'm actually

avoiding because of my past and these mindsets that I'm stuck on that aren't

actually true, then if you can't go there, it's not

going to motivate you to actually prepare and then take the step.

Right, Right. So I would say that's some hard work there. So what's. I

can think of small things people can do to work on this. And I want

to know from you, Troy, what you think. So, for example, what are

small conversations or less hard

conversations, if you want to put it that way, that you can engage in, that

would be practice. And the one I can think of is just

go to lunch with a friend, go to coffee with a friend and say, I'm

going to listen 80% of the time. Even tell them that, like, I'm working on

my listening, man. And so. Because maybe they're wondering why you're doing this,

but go to a business meeting and just listen and like,

not have an agenda. I mean, have a loose agenda and share when you need

to share, but. Or just practice encouraging

somebody when you normally wouldn't in your family, a

friend when just texting them and encouraging them. So what would what say

you, Troy? Yeah, I think committing to doing

things, other hard things in your life that you're

really having a hard time doing, maybe it's,

you know, hey, I'm. I'm practicing intermittent fasting. I'm going to commit

to doing it for like five, five days this week and see

if I can get that done. If I can commit to doing something

else like that, then I can commit to

stop avoiding and then preparing to have a hard conversation.

Yes, committing. And it's kind of.

It's kind of like creating a habit

and stacking those habits. I think there's a book about that, Atomic Habits.

Whereas if you, if you have a habit, if you create a habit

doing something, you can create another habit on top of that and stack them

and. And get better at doing things. So that's a big deal. Yeah.

So in review, identify why you avoid.

Prepare, plan to listen 80% of the time in that conversation,

schedule it, commit, and actually just do it. Remember, you can download the one

pager, take some notes, go to the YouTube video of

this episode, which we're gonna link in the show notes here, and then download it

and go through it. So. So I had, as I said, I had committed to

having the conversation with my sister, yet I kept putting it off. I was

not even going to have it until my friend Alan, who I had talked

to about it, he reminded me and asked me. And then I went ahead, I

looked at my notes, everything. I went ahead and had the conversation, like, right then

because he had texted me and I didn't want. I wanted to respond to him

saying, yes, I got it done. I didn't want the timeline of when, but it

was encouraging that he asked me. And it was casual, not too serious. She.

She thought about it. I feel like it left her with something to think about.

So in today's. If today's conversation between me

and Troy stirred something in you, there's probably a reason hard

conversations don't go away on their own. And clarity doesn't come

from just thinking about it, not doing anything else. So growth happens when you decide

to act. If you want help in identifying what's hold you back,

preparing for hard conversations that matter, building confidence,

that's exactly what we help business leaders and teams talk about

stuff, help them do. You don't need to be fearless.

You just need to be able to have a plan and be

willing to take the next right step, decide, act and repeat. So

Troy, how can listeners get more of you and you know, connect

with your podcast, Strategic Motion and all this? Yeah, so you can look

up Strategic Motion. It's on Apple, Spotify, also on

YouTube if you want to watch it. Or you can go to trussell

media.com that's t r u s s e l l

media dot com. Check it out. It's very good. He just got it started

maybe like two months ago. So there's just a handful of episodes, right? Dozen

episodes like that. Eight. Eight episodes so far. And

yeah, release one every Tuesday. So, okay, check him

out. So what have you gained and what action are you going to

commit to taking? That's my question for you. If you

got insight from today, which I know you did, the most important thing is that

you take action on that insight. I think you probably got that message from this

episode. 80% of positive transformational change is action.

Only 20% is insight. Got insight today, so take action.

Follow me, subscribe to my podcast on Apple or Spotify.

Decide your legacy. Give it a rating and review. And another way that you

can engage is to check out Shatterproof yourself, Live Light.

These are seven small steps to building self confidence is a

worksheet video. You can check that out there to

decide means to eliminate other options.

It's like you're deciding is saying, I'm going to give it a shot. I'm going

to commit. I'm going to do something. Your legacy is the impact your life has

on other people. There's no positive change until you decide to change.

You decide your legacy. You make the changes. So I'm going to close

the way I always do. Live the life today that you want to be remembered

for 10 years after you're gone. You decide your

legacy, nobody else. I appreciate you greatly and I'll see you next time.