Adam Gragg: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Decide Your Legacy podcast. If you have not already done so, and you found this podcast helpful, please give us a review and like, And love it on Apple Podcasts. That's how the word spreads. You give us a rating and just do me a favor, take 20 seconds, pull out your phone and do that.

That really, really helps it grow. I'll love you forever, I promise. Today we have a very special topic and a very special guest. So it's actually my sister, her name's Erica Gragg and the topic is on how travel can transform your life. And you may be thinking, well, what does this have to do with life coaching and mental wellness?

And what does this have to do with wellbeing overall. Well, you know, people, they end up facing things in life. I think I've talked about this before that 40% of change is a shift in our perspective. And then the other 60% is action. And so we're really talking a lot about actions today and actions you can take.

To face your fears to get out of yourself, to do some new things. And it can be very difficult. I wanted to also share, as I have every episode, a risk that I have taken recently, I actually took two risks today. So one is I actually called a local organization, actually a local travel agency and asked them to be a sponsor of the show.

And a paid sponsor of this show. I've never had a paid sponsor, but they're in the same office complex as me. So anyway, I thought that was kind of cool. And then I actually invested a little bit in the stock market today. It was kind of low and I usually don't buy individual stocks. So I put some cash in and I liked my cash.

So come on. That's a risk as well. So, like I said before, I'm my name is Adam Gragg and I'm your host. I'm a life coach, mental health professional for over 20 years. And my life purpose is to help other people find transformational clarity so they can overcome their fears. I like nothing more than see people face their fears and overcome them, which, you know, in some ways I've had to do a lot of that over the last five years.

and our fears that we end up facing are. Wonderful blessings in our lives. Cause they show us areas of growth and weakness. So I talk about stuff that in a way, at least my goal is to talk about it in a way where a six year old can understand. So very basic practical steps you can take. And for example, the last podcast was on encouraging people around you.

Adam Gragg: And I think you could explain that and it was on don't give it, you don't give advice. No, not giving advice. But rather actually asking questions. I think you could easily explain that to a six year old and they can understand, and they can build relationships with them with, with the kids in school that way as well.

I also like to discuss topics that I struggle with myself. So I'm a fellow traveler. I struggle with anxiety. I struggle with facing my fears. I struggle with getting out there. This topic I've been excited about for a long time for one it's because it's my sister that I get to have on the show. And she's a special person she's been to over 80 different countries.

She is a travel expert. Conde Naste Travel magazine rated her as a 2021 top travel specialist. She's actually the winner. her company is a best spa and wellness tour. So really big honors. I know she, for that, she had to go to the UAE United to go to Dubai to get that award. And today. We're going to talk about these three things, three ways travel can transform your life.

So, and I'm going to ask some questions. She's going to chime in. We're going to do it that kind of way. So Erica, you tell me what are some of the kind of crazy places you've traveled?

well, I, as you mentioned, I've been to over 80 countries. It was actually 87 this year, just recently in February, hit my 87th country. and I would say some of the. It's funny, the more you travel, the less crazy some of the destinations appear like to me now, it seems very normal to go to places like Butan, which are really remote and the Himalayas, or to India or to Botswana Rwanda, Tanzania.

I would say that, you know, I've been to very many exotic kinds of. But one of the one, one country that I was actually very hesitant to visit because I was afraid, was India. And I had heard for such a long time, oh, you're going to get sick. You're definitely going to get sick. And you're going to see poverty everywhere and you know, All of that.

Erica Gragg: And, I've been to India three times now. I've never gotten sick. Knock on my desk. And is really truly one of the most incredible countries I've ever visited. And I long to return back to, so, you know, there's a lot of other places in between, but

Adam Gragg: What was the 87th country?

Erica Gragg: it was actually Costa Rica. Interestingly enough, it wasn't that exotic of a country. I've been to every other country in Central [00:05:00] America except Costa Rica. And I finally went to Costa Rica.

Adam Gragg: Okay, cool. So, yeah. And you didn't even mention Galapagos. I would say that we, one of the most,

Erica Gragg: Galapagos is. yeah, Ecuador is beautiful and Galapagos is a truly transportive definitely.

Adam Gragg: Yeah, you, you know, what's kind of interesting is Erica is two and a half years older than me. I'm the middle child. And I remember her being terrified of flying, growing up. And, you have, I mean, are you still terrified of flying?

Erica Gragg: I am. I am still terrified of

Adam Gragg: a,

Erica Gragg: Yes.

Adam Gragg: is so crazy because it's like, and I remember one time when we were kids, Erica, that was probably in high school.

I think I was in middle school and we were flying between two Hawaiian islands and it was a very turbulent flight. And I just remember Erica freaking out because you were, you were saying Our Fathers and Hail Marys out loud on the plane

Erica Gragg: And you were laughing .

Adam Gragg: were going to crash.

Erica Gragg: at me. you. thought it was like a

Adam Gragg: And I was laughing at you. I was like, yeah.

I mean, that was like, you know, and we were so shocked when you got involved in this industry and it's like, okay,

Erica Gragg: I once had a psychiatrist, tell me. We have a client, who's a psychiatrist. And I once had him say to me, the fact that you don't let your fear inhibit you from living your life and you just embrace it. He's like, it's okay to be afraid of it, but you don't let it prevent you from doing the things that you love.

And that's exactly what it comes down to. I don't like flying. I don't like turbulence, but I want the reward. I love going to the place that I go to get to.

Adam Gragg: Yeah. And you know, that kind of leads me to my next question, how you got involved in this industry. And I wanted to share that, and I just kind of realized this right now that you lived in Manhattan and, September 11th, 2001.

And, and I had, I really have never even talked to you about that. I mean, we knew you were saying.

And we were worried and everything. I remember that, but you were only, in a, I mean, you're only a couple miles away when the planes hit the twin towers. So you were at the dentist office, right? You were actually at the dentist's office.

Yeah.

Erica Gragg: I was getting a root canal. And I had seen That, the plane hit the twin towers, but I had to go to the root canal. And at the beginning, if you, everyone remembers, no one really knew what had happened. No one knew what kind of plane hit it. So I remember even talking to mom on the phone and her saying, did you see that there was a plane that hit the twin towers?

And it was really early California time. And I said, Yeah. I saw that. That's crazy. I've got to go to my dentist appointment. By the time I got to my dentist appointment, the dentist had the news on And he said, I'm sorry to do this, but we have to watch what's going on. I think there's been a terrorist attack.

They had kind of figured it out by then. And then the rest was obviously, I mean, that was an incredibly sad and mournful time for our entire country, New York. Obviously we took it really hard, but everyone came together. So.

Adam Gragg: And I remember that even as being sort of a transitional point in your life. So how did you initially get involved in travel.

Erica Gragg: You know, I it's interesting because we, as you know, Adam, we didn't travel that exotically as a family, as a child at all, I mean, we went to, you know, Disneyland, Hawaii. you know, Rhode Island like that. I mean, we didn't go anywhere that exotic. And so my travel bug really started when I moved to New York and I had some opportunities to go to.

I went to in my early twenties, I went to Hong Kong. I went to Bali, I went to Borneo. I went to South Africa. and that actually sort of ignited that I, I enjoyed traveling, but then when September 11th happened, I realized I no longer wanted to just live my life in New York City. And that was when I moved to Mexico. it wasn't very, it was about four months later that I moved to Mexico and I started my first wellness company, which I'm no longer involved in. And then I met my now husband, about 10 years after. Or maybe it was like eight years after that and he loves to travel. And through him, I started to be able to see more of the world because he is European he's Italian and you know, he was a professional athlete. So he had already traveled to a lot of places. And so he really helped me to tap into a passion that already existed inside of me. I just really did not have a chance to explore it until then. So,

Adam Gragg: And then it all took off from there. So,

Erica Gragg: it all took off from there. Yeah.

Adam Gragg: eh, and yeah. That's and so tell, tell us, tell me about the business. So I know there's two sides to it. Does it escape to shape and then escape, artist travel. So tell me about that. And so our listeners can kind of understand

Erica Gragg: Sure. So Escape to Shape as the original business. And that was founded in 2009. the tagline of escape to shape is adventures and wellness. And that is really exactly what it is. We, before the pandemic, we were offering about 12 to 15 destinations a year, small group travel focused on authentic experiences, connection with another culture and with yourself, [00:10:00] reconnection to yourself, to other like-minded travelers, fitness, yoga, mindfulness, and I'm always doing that. Always offering a very authentic, unique experience that's reflective of the culture that we're visiting and visiting. So we like to give back to the culture.

We want to stay in authentic accommodations, but we want them to be luxurious. And that's where that's what Escape to Shape is all about. And then Escape Artists Travel really. Was a pirouette. I like to stay instead of a pivot from Escape to Shape because remember all of a sudden travel just didn't exist anymore.

Especially group travel in 2020. And so I started to focus in on offering people customized trips. So now Escape to Shape is flourishing. Travel is at a height red peak right now, people are moving around like never before that pent up, sitting at home has gotten to a lot of people and now they're ready to see the world and not put off places that they couldn't see for basically almost two years.

and so now I offer private travel planning, anything from, you know, a staycation in your own town to anything in the U S to the more exotic and, you know, Africa is a big location. Planning right now, as well as a lot of Europe, Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, and Egypt has been interestingly enough, a big 4runner in the, for those, for looking to, you know,

Adam Gragg: Egypt's been popular these days, so,

Erica Gragg: you just been popular these days.

Yeah.

Adam Gragg: okay. Okay. So,

Erica Gragg: And for good reason,

Adam Gragg: And for good reason, so, okay. So that's on that's. some, I need to put it on my list, I

Erica Gragg: Yes,

one of the ways that, and Erica and I've been talking about this, but one of the ways that I have seen, travel, change her life and, and it has changed my life as well. Cause I remember actually I went to Italy in September, October. I've talked about this before and I was kind of terrified, almost canceled my trip. Was a S a scary thing. I had never been to Europe. I'd never been overseas before, outside of Mexico and the Caribbean. And I remember actually calling Erica. telling her that I didn't think I was going to go.

Adam Gragg: I couldn't believe the fear how overwhelming it actually was, but it was a blessing. I mean, it helped me face something and, and travel does that for a lot of people. It gives us a shift in perspective about ourselves and about the world around us. So how has traveled changed your perspective?

Erica Gragg: Travel has changed my perspective in life quite significantly. I think that the way I view life is very much through a lens of having seen so much of the world. one of the most, one of the things that stays with me whenever I travel is that poverty looks incredibly. And every single country and the way in which a community can come together and the sense of community that these cultures have.

Some of these cultures that look like they have nothing. And yet they have so much more than what we can see with just through our eyes. I have put a different value on. What is important in life. And of course, basic needs are incredibly important. But when I visit countries like Cambodia or South Africa or east Africa or Morocco or India, and I see that there's a lot of happiness and a sense of community that people take care of.

One another. It makes me realize that sometimes are our priorities in the Western world are really off and what we really take for, and what we have. How do we label happiness? So, that perspective is shifted. I also have a great appreciation for what a much greater appreciation for where things come from.

I think before I traveled, I probably thought that if I turned on a light switch or if I turned on a hot water tap, that that's where it came from, but it doesn't, it comes from, you know, there are so many. Elements that go into that come into place just to have running water. So I have a different appreciation for the creature comforts that we have in our Western lifestyle and more than anything, I think I've realized that travel has opened my mind.

It's expanded my mind that there's not two ways. There's not one way to do. I think about like the, the fruit, the fruit or the vegetable, depending on how you want to refer to it as the avocado in our culture, we, you know, we have it for guacamole and we, you know, eat it on top of toast and we put it in salads, but in some other cultures, they use it as an ice cream.

They use it as a smoothie. They it's a sweet, so, it's, you know, it's just a different perspective it's given me. It's made me have a much broader outlook towards life that there's not just one way of doing something.

Adam Gragg: And so I'm sure you've seen a lot of perspective changes within clients on trips as well. And so can you share maybe an example or two about how you've seen clients' lives and their perspectives change?

Erica Gragg: Yeah, I think that's one of the single most rewarding. Rewarding aspects of what I do. And you saw a lot of that when you were with [00:15:00] us in lake Como as well, that people, when they don't have to worry about what they're going to eat or how, what they're going to do that day, they can just focus on themselves.

And through that they can tap back into what makes their soul sing and really tap back into themselves a sense of self. And it's really beautiful transformation. I see. And when people take the space and the time out for themselves, I've seen people who, you know, I've, I've seen people decide that they were in relationships that were unhealthy and decided to walk away from those relationships.

I've seen people decide that, you know what, you're right. I do want to be a mom and go home and decide that they're going to have a child. I've seen people who never. I have known how to swim before all of a sudden, you know, this happening or one of our Galapagos trips, we actually had a gal who showed up and she did not know how to swim.

She did not realize that Galapagos is basically a safari in the water. So you do need to swim in order to experience Galapagos. And she. Figured it out. We had a guide with her, she put on a life jacket and she was like, I'm not going to let the fact that I don't know how to swim, keep me from this experience.

And by the time that the trip was over, she was swimming with hammerhead sharks and reef sharks and dolphins and baby sea lions. And, you know, just that's a physical transformation obviously, but, a lot of the transformations are Very much emotional and, spiritual and mental, as well. So.

Adam Gragg: Very cool. I was thinking just as you talked about that, that I, we can travel locally. I mean, I was. Two summers ago, the summer of 2020, it was in the middle of COVID and I took my daughter on an RV adventure, and I re I remember just waiting. And this says a lot about me and my own anxiety. Like I, I felt overwhelmed about going in this big, old RV.

With me and my dog and my daughter to these different locations, they're going to meet friends. And I had like, just, I tried to cancel the trip, but I was like 10 minutes too late to get a full refund. It was like, because in that trip it ended up being just something. When we got back, Emerson said, man, you know, I'm just so.

It is over now. So it's, it's, it's just crazy how our fears do that, how they pull us away from things yet we go and push through. And then we see the blessing on the other side. I mean, even just today, I had a situation with a client. He, he knew he had to face something and face a relationship to have a conversation with his mom and about a business situation and just kept putting it off to put it off for about two or three years.

And then he promised me he was going to actually do it to. I texted him. He hasn't actually done it yet, but the thing that we do is we realize we have these fears that, okay, let's not listen to those. And let's actually push through on the other side, is that change perspective. So what are things that people can do?

What are actions people can do even locally to start working on doing things differently, seeing things differently, changing their perspective in their local community. Oh, you Steven, right?

that's a good question. I mean, I think as you mentioned, you don't have to go very far from home in order to have a shift in perspective, but it does typically require getting out of your day. Comfort zone and that's different for any of us, for all of us. I mean, for some people, maybe you've never thought about going on a hike before, but go on a really easy mellow hike for an hour, or maybe you've never gone kayaking before.

Erica Gragg: So you want to go, so you try kayaking. there's plenty of things That people can do on a local. Level that will allow you a shift of perspective. If you live in a city, maybe go in and explore a new neighborhood, go to a different restaurant. That's farther away from where you normally go to so that you try a different ethnicity of cuisine, something that you don't normally Ethiopian food.

For example, I bet a lot of people don't realize that it's absolutely delicious. Find an Ethiopian restaurant, go to that or bring it for takeout, you know, allowing you. Yourself to have a new experience, then you taste the new smells new. Maybe you've never gone to an art museum, go to an art meet. Cause you're you think you don't like art or you don't appreciate art or you don't know anything about art?

That's okay. You don't need to know anything about it. Just go and see if it brings up any new emotions. It might inspire you in a whole new way. It could be a garden that you go to because you're not someone who thinks of yourself as enjoying a garden. Try something different than what you normally try.

Nothing bad can come of that. I think we've, we regret the things that we don't do. We don't regret the things that we try.

Adam Gragg: That we try. Yeah. So, I mean, it reminds me of this recently this summer I went to a town called Lucas, Kansas, and someone said, you got to go to Lucas, Kansas, they have this toy, they had this toilet bowl and a bathroom that has all these tiles. And it's like, amazing. And you won't believe it's in Lucas.

And Lucas is just a very small town. And so of course I went, I was nearby Wilson lake and saw this bathroom and you know, of course I had a lot [00:20:00] of fun. So. This reminds me of episode 28 of the decide your legacy podcast, being more spontaneous, just doing things you might want to check that out. And if you found this episode helpful so far, sign up for my newsletter for the decide your legacy newsletter and get a workbook, actually it's five days to overpowering anxiety.

So it's an excellent, it's something you print out and work on if you want to work on anxiety. Cause that's really what we're talking about here. In some ways is anxiety and facing things. So the second thing is that you through travel can get to know yourself better and above all else know yourself.

And so that's kind of a complicated topic, but really you'll learn. It gives you time. I mean, obviously on the plane, you have time for self-reflection. I think it's, and it's, you know, I've talked about this before. I mean, we, we can have a negative. That a negative thought will stick in about two seconds.

You know, a positive thought it'll stick in about it takes about 14 seconds. I think travel can be a thing. And I was thinking a lot of time for yourself. You could probably, you know, magnify your problems. I could probably make things worse or can make things better, but. I think, and I definitely believe that, for a lot of people, if they're intentional about it, it can make and have a big impact on, on them knowing who they are better.

So, Erica, what are, what are some of the positive things that you've learned about yourself while traveling and maybe strengths that you didn't even know you had.

Erica Gragg: I realized that I am much more flexible than I thought that I was. I think that travel is, I think I now realize I'm a very flexible person and I don't mean that I can touch my toes. I mean that I can go with the flow because travel does really require you to, to be flexible. I mean, your flight might change.

You might all of this. I see a beautiful cafe that you want to stop at and it wasn't on your plan. there's just so many differences, whether it could rain you out or, You know, the sunny day could be in two days and you were planning to go on the boat today, but today's not the right day to go on the boat.

Cause the weather, the water's too rough. So. Travel does force you to be flexible. And I also have recognize the beauty of spontaneity while it's really great to have a plan to know, okay, I'm going to Paris. And when I go to Paris, I want to see these five things. Leave the rest open to what might reveal itself.

Travel is really like this beautiful, beautiful, journey that will unravel for you. If you allow yourself. Space for the unexpected and those unexpected moments. I mean, when I put together an itinerary for myself or for my clients, there's, there's always wonderful things on it that I know we're going to make everyone happy.

But the things that stay with you the most are the unexpected it's that person that you. At the cafe who started to speak to you about their grandfather and the fact that this used to be his cafe a hundred years ago or that you know, or it's the little children you meet in a marketplace who are trying to sell you something, but you start talking to them in your.

Spanish. I mean, those are the moments that really stay with you that are not in a guidebook that you cannot plan. They're completely unpredictable. I remember being in Bhutan and hiking through the, the middle Himalayas and, all of a sudden coming there was nobody in sight. We saw nothing but cows and villagers with, you know, their wears on their shoulders.

And all of a sudden we came as we were coming down. To a little village. We saw a group of people playing a game that I had never seen played before, but it was like a mix of, like rugby and soccer sort of had, even though that's not related, but it was just, it looked like that. And they started waving for us to come over and they had us play in their game.

They're speaking, Bhutanese, we're speaking English. And all of a sudden we're all playing this game that none of us understand, but we were laughing and having so much fun. Playing volleyball with monks in other countries, because all of a sudden you give them a gift of a volleyball and they invite you to come in and play the game with them.

Those are the moments that you cannot plan, and those are, that's what travel teaches you. And it's how do you take that into your real life and how do you allow yourself to leave room for the unexpected to leave room for the spontaneous and also being more flexible in life. And I think those are really two huge, valuable lessons and part of the beauty of travel.

Adam Gragg: You know, one point you've made us that we learn about ourselves. I don't know if you've met, you made this kind of indirectly, as we learn about ourselves, to relationships with other people and situations that are unexpected. And we see how we handle that. That we don't actually realize we're going to act, we're going to face.

I remember when we were at lake Como and some of those hikes you had planned were pretty amazing. We, one of the hikes, you go to different towns and you have all these things organized, but it was like a seven mile hike. And we were along the lake for a while. And then we went to. Well, I don't know. There were a number of hikes we went on, but one of them I remember were hiking up to a church and there was like a station of the cross every mile.

And I'm like, this is, and it's probably been there for four or 500 years. And then we ended up at a city where Mussolini had been. [00:25:00] Assassinated, you know, and like, you're just, I didn't expect any of those things. I mean, you, you probably had some of that stuff planned, but it was really cool and the views were amazing as well.

So, so what, how has travel revealed some of your weaknesses or areas you want to grow in.

Erica Gragg: Yeah, that happens all the time too, because there are moments when you. When things don't go quite according to plan where it's only human, that you feel disappointed. it's only human that you feel frustrated sometimes, especially if you have to rely on all these other people around you in order to get something done.

And it's, you're struggling with the communication factor. So I would say that. Travel has taught me where I need to be more patient in a lot of ways in certain, in certain aspects, be more patient with other humans you might not want to do in other cultures do things significantly slower than we do here in the United States.

So I've had to learn that I need to become a more patient person and I need to adapt to these cultures. I shouldn't try to have these cultures adapt to the frantic pace of the. You know, Western lifestyle. So, and that even applies to in.

a lot of Western countries, such as Italy, for example, I mean, you know, You sit down at the table to eat and Italy, Spain, Greece, any of these countries, and they want to have the meal lasts for a very long time with, you know, courses and conversations and wines and coffees and all these things that are absolutely beautiful.

But you know, when you're in a time crunch and you have an agenda, you know, I've had to learn that I need to appreciate. I need to learn how to appreciate slowing down, learn how to be more patient and learn how that, that there is an art in not doing something. And that is something that I have found in America.

Like, have you ever noticed that? We say, oh, what did you do today to somebody? Well, in a lot of other countries, it's not about what you did today. It's what you didn't do. You know, I enjoyed the beach. I, you know, it's I just relaxed. I live with. Like LA Dolce Vita, the Italian state is saying, have a beautiful, a sweet life is not because you did a 500 things today.

It's because you didn't do anything and you just enjoyed and savored life. So I've had to learn that I am not as good at that as I should be, but I really really want to be. So I'm working on it. Yes. I really want to be able to slow down. Yeah,

Adam Gragg: Yeah. Be patient that's. I mean, I want to work on that myself. I remember when I was on that trip. At least at some point realized that, you know, holding onto the past and resentments and things, it doesn't serve me. And at least we wanted to figure out how to work on that better.

So I think even just some ways you can apply this, getting to know yourself better, even with travel. I mean, you can plan trips and everything, but it's just thinking about how, how often do we just take the time to reflect and, and sit, you know, and just be still, and I know, meditation and yoga. Or, you know, you've been doing yoga since, for a long time and teaching it and everything.

And I look at that and think, boy, there's a lot of self-reflection that happens when you, that's why it's so hard for me. I mean, it's not just physically hard. The hard part about yoga for me is actually just the patient's part. Just, it just slowing down enough to do. So taking the time to get to know yourself better.

and there's different ways. I mean, journaling is one of those ways, but, but travel does give you a lot of different chances to experience things and people that are going to show you things about yourself. So the third, third thing, we've already kind of hinted at this some already, but what the third way travel can transform your life is increased overall flexibility.

Adam Gragg: So, and like Erica said, not just touching your toes, which she can do. She's extremely flexible by the way, she can,trust me, she's, she's her yoga experience makes her extremely physically flexible. But when I think of flexibility overall, I think we are less. Perfectionism. It doesn't have to be perfect.

It can be a seven that perfectionism overall is just a disguise for fear. I mean, it's just a way, it's a self protective function. We got to have it a certain way. We're not going to do it at all. And on the saying that I tell clients, oftentimes it's better, you know? Some is better than none and done is better than perfect.

You know, you just done get it done. If it's at a seven or even a five, you know, at least you're doing something and you doing something different. So I got a buddy even today with flexibility. He is a part of a new franchise called, chicken max and are a very, he's very passionate about it. And, and I tried, I've been eating there.

There's, there's three of them in town and. I keep going back and getting the same sandwich when I go there. And again, the same stuff there, you know, and he's like, you gotta try this, you gotta try that, you know, get it, you know, explore the menu is what he was saying. And I thought, man, that, you know, I am in flexible a lot of times, like, you know, I don't want to, I want to do things my way.

I want to eat the same thing. I want to have the same routine. And there are some benefits to that as well. And you know, even I thought about last week too, I had a client who is. I saw him. And he was really frustrated because, he has three [00:30:00] kids and the house was like, really, according to him, it was like just a disaster, you know?

I mean, I don't know, I don't know he's exaggerating or whatever, and it was just a mess, you know? And he said he had to spend three hours cleaning the house before he could relax or whatever. And my, my challenge to him was I'm like, yeah, You know what I'm glad your house was a disaster, you know, I'm glad it was a mess.

Cause this is a chance for you to practice being flexible. It's, it's a chance for you to, to, you know, leave and go on a walk or, you know, go to bed or sit in your room and don't worry about this because it's not going to kill anybody, having a dirty house. And then. Knowing also that most likely it was by most standards, it would not be even dirty at all.

You know? So it's just a, it's a perspective thing. So, so how, how does someone with a lot of fear about traveling gets started?

Erica Gragg: Well, I think that you actually touched upon a great idea and we've, we both kind of brought it up in different ways. And I think the food aspect is a good starting point because I think food is something food for a lot of people as a control issue, we can control what we do. and we can do, we get, become creatures of habit and we eat the same things all the time.

But what if you are interested, let's say, you're saying, okay, I want to go on a trip. I'm not sure where I want to go, but I do want to get out of my comfort zone. I want to go on. Start by going to a different restaurant, try a different ethnicity of food than you normally do something that's out of your comfort zone.

Typically, a lot of people, if you live in cities, you can find these things. I think that's like a great way to sort of break into it a little bit. And then. After that I say, and I, again, this is coming from a girl who, you know, was a fearful traveler in the beginning and realize that the fear was in my head.

And now I, there's not a place that I don't want to travel to, except for North Korea. And Russia right now, but I've been to Russia. and obviously the Ukraine, like, I mean, yes, I don't want to go to war torn countries, but I still have such a sense of curiosity if you're curious by a book about it then, and have that be the starting point to learn a little bit more about it.

So it doesn't seem so foreign to you. A lot of times, the reason why. We're fearful is because it seems so, so different than how, who we are. And one of the things that is beautiful about travel is that you realize that we are all humans and we are all living, feeling compassionate beings who want to be heard and want to be understood.

And that the similarities between cultures are far more. Our first stronger than the differences. And a lot of our problems in the world could be solved if we, you know, it, when it comes to prejudices and preconceived notions could be solved to people traveled more. Cause I think people would realize, you know what, doesn't matter what you look like.

We are both humans and we. I want the same things for our families and for ourselves and for our lives. So take baby steps, try a foreign food, buy a guide book, and then just do it. Go on the trip. Just like you had to do with you, Adam. I mean, you can talk yourself out of it, but you're only going to regret it.

If you can find the time to take the trip. Did it take the trip and it will open up your world and your mind to all the possibilities that are out there. Nothing your, your world cannot be opened up just from reading the book. I mean, yeah. Read the book, read books about it, but plan the trip and do it, make yourself do it start saving for it now, like make it a goal,

Adam Gragg: Even if you're afraid to fly,

Erica Gragg: even if you're afraid to fly

Adam Gragg: which by the way, is, you know, there is a flexibility issue because yeah,

I mean, legit kinda, and it's a, it's a rigid kind of all or nothing perfectionistic thing. You know, if we have some turbulence that means we're going to crash.

Erica Gragg: Right. Exactly.

Adam Gragg: know, if there's clouds in the sky and we're flying through them, that means the plane is going to crash.

And so it's teaching you to be flexible,

Erica Gragg: And those are the irrational fears that I have. So yes,

Adam Gragg: Yeah, I know exactly, but you still do

them and, and you still get help from the flight attendants and you

Erica Gragg: I, do. I, do, you know,

Adam Gragg: it, and your husband helps you out there and everything. So rigidity is the Cardinal trait of all mental illness.

That's, that's a saying that's a kind of an exception. We learned to be more flexible. We learned to overcome anxiety, depression, a lot of mental health issues come from being more. I mean, it actually can be helped significantly by learning to be more flexible. So, so, so what's been the worst travel experience

you've had and how'd you get through it?

Erica Gragg: Oh, well, okay. I would say that the worst travel experience I've ever had was COVID-19. not that I was on a trip, but we had to cancel. in March of 2020, we had to cancel over 100 private travel, private clients, traveling trips, and 10 escaped to shapes. So the [00:35:00] unraveling and the canceling and that no one knew it was happening.

So you at that time, you had to really fight for your clients deposit to get back. We had to fight for our clients to be refunded. So that was like literally the worst travel experience I've ever had. And I know. You know, everyone was feeling the impact of that and different blaze. The travel industry really felt it financially.

but everyone felt it in a very, you know, deep, meaningful, and personal ways. then the other, from an actual trip, I would say that. this did not, we had, there was a, it didn't actually happen while we were on the trip, but we were getting ready to go on the trip. it?

Erica Gragg: was about three weeks away from the trip and the place we were staying at in Atacama chili was burned down, due to a fire.

And so we had to reroute all of our. To Patagonia, those who wanted to go, but that was very, very stressful to have to. First of all, you felt horrible for the local people in Chile who had lost their beautiful hotel. And second, you had all these clients that were planning already had flights and everything else to get to the country.

And now they couldn't get there. or the, now there was no place for them to stay. So that was definitely a big, a big concern. And other than that, I feel very lucky that we haven't had any. You know, with travel comes the fact that you just don't know what could possibly happen. So you have to really, we've been very lucky that there's nothing tragic has happened on

Adam Gragg: Yeah, right, right. Is there any one thing that helps you get through that one canceled? I mean, this COVID the ma helped you to.

Erica Gragg: It, it helped me to know that we were all in. As a world together that my position, as hard as, as traumatic as it felt to me, it helped me to know that we needed to be, there was, there was finally something that was bonding all of us as a, as one world, that no one. No one was not affected by this. so there was a sense of unity in that, and there was a sense of peace and this isn't happening to me.

This is happening to all of us. so it became, I definitely felt a sense of altruism that we were all in this together. So that helped me. and I also just really felt like it was important that I take care of my clients and really advocate for them. So because they too were going through a really traumatic experience, at the same time of that uncertainty again, no one knew it was happening.

It was, everyone was scared. There was a fear. so I wanted to try to be someone who could be solid and strong to help my clients throughout something like that. That helped me to get, you know,

Adam Gragg: Yeah. Just being on a community and being in something with other people. I know that's really interesting how it makes you more flexible. I even saw on that escape that I went on a lake Como, how some people were afraid of certain things, and then they would talk to somebody else and then they would, okay, I can do this hike or, you know, I can do whatever the next adventure was.

Or I could try this new thing I could learn to, you know, make pasta

Erica Gragg: exactly. That's actually a good point to bring up Adam. If people are afraid to travel and they want.

Adam Gragg: our

Erica Gragg: I know, sorry. He works with me also. So, the other, another thing that's really great for people who do want to start to think about traveling is find a group to travel with. I mean, sure. I'd love for you to travel with escape to shape, but it doesn't necessarily have to be with escape to shape. But Adam brought up a great point that when you're traveling with a small group of people, there's not only is there a built-in sense of community and you can find your own space within that community, but there's also this sense of. They might give you the, they might inspire you to try something even that you wouldn't even try yourself on your vacation. so.

I mean, I'm a big fan of small group travel, especially for solo P for solo. I think Adam, you can speak to That I mean, it challenged you to try things that you might not have tried before on your own.

Adam Gragg: absolutely. And got to know some, some great people and. Do some things and you know, and everything was planned. I mean, you've kind of spoiled on your escapes because everything, the food, you have a chef, you have all that, you know, everything is pretty much planned out for you. So I didn't have to stress about thinking about what's next, but, so I'm kind of in closing, just a few questions.

I know that some people are dying to hear your answer. So what's your favorite.

Erica Gragg: Emirates, anytime I could ever fly Emirates, I would absolutely fly. Emirates is fantastic. The service is top notch. you, a lot of times they fly through Dubai. So of course it doesn't make sense in the United States that you're going to fly there, but it's, they have a direct flight from New York to Milan, which is amazing.

And. From San Francisco and LA to Amman, to Milan and to Dubai. And they're just a great airline. If you're ever traveling to the middle east to Asia or South Africa or to Africa, they're a fantastic airline and I'm not being paid by [00:40:00] Emirates. Okay.

Adam Gragg: and not being paid. So favorite hotel that you've ever stayed

Erica Gragg: Oh, gosh, that is so hard. There's quite a few that I absolutely love.

I love, there is, I love the Oberoi properties in India. There's another property in, India called Roz hotel in Jod pore. That's truly magical. all the safari camps I've been lucky enough to go to, well, not a traditional hotel are really. Breathtaking in Botswana, such as AGU or.

the, of planes. I would say that,

Erica Gragg: recently when I was in Costa Rica, I absolutely loved, the, there was a new Obera bearish property called Alta grassiness, which was beautiful. And also Nayara attended camp, which was like a bit of a feeling of Africa, but in the rainforest, the tiger camp that I went to. what was it called? Sujan in, in India was incredible. in Turks and Caicos, I loved the Amman property and I loved Como parrot Cay. I mean, I really. And someone who I love hotels, and I especially love hotels that make you feel transported where there's a sense of place where you really feel like this hotel.

I cannot find anywhere else in the world because it's just unique to here. The Como properties that we stay at in Butan magical. Yeah. I have a lot of hotels that I love. Oh, I love these, hotels in Sri Lanka that are called KK collection. Those are gorgeous owned by my friend, George. yeah, I could go on and on.

I mean, the us has amazing hotels too, by the way. So if you want me to list those, I can list those

Adam Gragg: And these these are all, these are all low budget hotels,

Erica Gragg: Yes, yes, yes. I'm sorry. You never told me within a price point. Okay.

Adam Gragg: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I know. So how can somebody that's interested in hiring, you need to help them plan travel or to go to one of the escapes that you have, which are amazing, you know, reach you.

Erica Gragg: Yeah. So, for escape to shape, we are offering for upcoming trips this year. Finally, again, we get to, we're going to be in Morocco lake Como, Slovenia and Tanzania between now and. So if anyone is interested in finding out more, and then of course we're going to be having a much more extensive calendar in 20 22, 20 23, excuse me.

hopefully, but anyone's interested in finding out more. They can go to our website@wwwdotescapedtoshapedotcomoremailmedirectlyatericaatescapetoshape.com and then for our travel planning services, which is escape artists travel. We do not charge any fees to plan travel. So, our goal is just to make sure that you are VIP and have the best experience possible insider access to all of our knowledge of the countries and our guides and that sort of thing.

Erica Gragg: And we, our goal is to make sure that you have the best price and the best experience. So there's no added cost there. And we have a website there as well. It's www escape. Artists travel.com or Erika at escape artists, travel.com and try escape. Artists is with a plural it's artists, and then we're on Instagram and we're on Facebook and All that good stuff.

Adam Gragg: All that good stuff. So, okay. So I'll tell you if you love this episode, which I have, it's been really great having you Erica, on the show. And I learned a whole bunch and I know the audience has learned a whole bunch as well. So if you love this, share it on your Instagram stories and then tag me, Adam.

Gragg G R a G G. That's how the podcast grows organically. I don't have any big sponsors companies pushing this out there and, and it's been growing. It's been pretty exciting about that. So share it with your friends, some upcoming podcasts, one on how to practice mindfulness, which, you know, you're, you could help me with that too, but mindful lifestyle.

I'm going to give you actual an actual meditation that you can download and utilize creating a vision for your future and your future business. So it's going to be another episode. And, going to go back and anxiety again. So I get so many questions about dealing with anxiety. So daily practices to overcome anxiety in the end.

Here's a quote from Abe, Abraham Lincoln. I love in the end. It's not the years in your life. That count it's the life in your years. In the end. It's not the years in your life. That count it's the life in your years. And I saw an Eric, his profile, a quote that I thought was excellent too. So we travel initially to lose ourselves and we travel next to find ourselves.

We traveled to open our hearts and eyes and learn more about the world that our newspapers will accommodate. We traveled the. What little we can in our ignorance and knowledge to those parts of the globe whose riches are differently dispersed. And we travel in essence to become young fools again, to slow time down and get taken in and fall in love once more.

Pico hire. So if you found something useful from [00:45:00] today, one thing, two things, make sure you put it into practice. Again, change. If you want to change, you want to transform your life. You start by awareness. You start by acknowledging it's an issue. Like I do have a problem with anxiety and then you take action and oftentimes it's action.

Opposite of how we feel. There's actually a tool that I teach clients it's called opposite emotion action. It's a, it's a therapy tool. So we do different things. So you find that one thing that really stuck from you today, there's those three points makes helps change our perspective through travel. We get to know ourselves better and it increases our flexible.

I want you to commit to doing something different, to taking a different action today, based on what you learned. And if you don't do it quick, it'll fade away. So call to action for you. If you found this helpful to hire me or someone on my team as a coach, I can do it internationally. I've had clients all over the world.

I have, honestly, I mean, I typically have a waiting list, so you may not be able to get in right away, but I'd love to visit with you about doing some coaching and coaching is helping you get to that place, that next step in your life that you want to, next thing you want to achieve and maybe a transition in your life, a new job, it may be, you know, transitioning out of a divorce, maybe some kind of change.

That you're stuck in. So I've been a mental health professional for 20 years doing the coaching side of this thing for about 14 as well. And so just signing off the way I always do. Thinking about how you want to be remembered 10 years after you're gone. What do you want your legacy to be? When people are sitting around Christmas, talking about Erica, Adam, Brandon, Brian, what do you want them to say?

You decide your legacy. You decide your future. No one else. You decide your legacy and I will see you next time at the next episode. Bye.