Ep58_BuildingEmotionalandRelationalHealth
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Adam Gragg: [00:00:00] So in 2008, 2009, in the Great Recession, I actually lost my job and it happened out of the blue. I was really depressed and I couldn't shake thoughts like, I'm a failure, I'm doomed. How could I do this to my family? I felt a tremendous amount of shame and I couldn't get out of it. I was emotionally stuck, you know?

And I really was relationally stuck too, cuz I was isolating. I [00:01:00] wasn't talking to anybody. And eventually I snapped out of it and I started to. That, okay. There's hope and there's potential in my future, and it changed everything for me. I went back to my foundation. Which is in my legacy journey process, the beans.

So we're talking relationships, perspective, self-worth, emotional health today. Well, actually that experience led me to creating, decide your legacy. It led me to creating the legacy journey process. And so I'm grateful for it. And today what I'm gonna talk to you about is that foundational principle.

That you gotta build emotional and relational health to start the foundation, to building your legacy. I have a special guest today. He's a good friend and I'm gonna give him a chance to introduce himself in a moment here . I wanna start by saying, Hey, this is the Decide Your Legacy podcast.

Welcome, this is the podcast that you do not just listen to. It's a podcast of action. I'm Adam Gragg, your host. If you haven't already done so, please subscribe on Apple or Spotify anywhere you get podcast content. Take you 15 seconds on your phone, like love this podcast, share it with your friends, get it [00:02:00] out there.

It helps it to grow organically, which it has been significantly. If also you find this podcast helpful at any point you can link and you can click the link to shatterproof yourself, my new course to one hour course. Seven Simple Steps to Deciding Your Legacy to creating the Foundation, and deciding your Legacy.

As I share in every episode, some risks I've taken recently. One is I decided, and this was just outta the blue, but I decided to give people a Starbucks gift card if they could name the nine planets and then how far away they are from the sun. So kind of the order. So of course, I'll give you a hint right now, it's Mercury is the closest to the sun. And then Pluto is the furthest, although it's not, and I know it's not actually a planet, it's a belt, the Kiper belt. So anyway, that was fun. It was kind of a risk. People looked at me kind of awkwardly, kind of crazy. And I also did something interesting where I saw a guy who I hadn't seen in probably about two years, and I remembered his name cuz I had written it down.

And so I went up to him and this was actually in a coffee shop, and I just said, Hey, how's it going Nick? And he looked at me like, who are you? Or whatever. And I'm like you're. Nichols is what his name was. I [00:03:00] mean, I remembered it too because it kind of was a similar first and last name. So anyway, that went really well into a really good conversation.

And the reason I talk about risks is because it does take action to make progress in your life. I want you to take action in your life. So again, I'm a legacy coach, mental health professional, speaker, podcaster. I'm Adam Gragg. I've been doing this, I've been in mental health. I've been licensed since 1999.

And my life purpose is to help people and organizations find transformational clarity to face their biggest fears so they can live and leave their chosen legacy. And usually those are emotional fears. I talk about stuff that you can describe to your six-year-old and they're gonna be able to understand it.

I also talk about things I struggle with myself. Relationships and emotions. I struggle with, I mean, pretty much every day in some way. And I want you to have some tips and tools today from somebody who's gonna have a different perspective. And so I wanna go ahead and, oh, one last thing before I introduce my guest.

I want to remind you to listen as a [00:04:00] teacher. It's gonna stick when you realize that you can teach something or talk about something you learned today with somebody else. So listen, as a teacher, so I wanna introduce to you. Todd Nickel, and Todd's been a good friend of mine for a number of years and he's been in the mental health and a licensed mental health professional for 20 years.

Right, I believe. . So go ahead and just share whatever you wanna share,

Todd Nickel: Todd. And Well, this is kind of my actually my second career, to be honest with you, I started off my, I have. . I went to college and I graduated with a business degree thinking I was gonna set the business world on fire. That's what I really thought was gonna happen.

But as time went on, I just realized that wasn't necessarily my calling. I kind of felt like I wanted to help people more and I wanted to be more involved in helping them reach their goals, to be satisfied, to be content with life. And so that's when I, and all my great wisdom, and I waited until I was already married and had three small children before I yeah, quit my job and went back to school.

You may have to talk to my wife if that was a really a great idea or not. But anyway, I went back to school and finished up and got a degree in marriage and family [00:05:00] therapy. And so I've been doing that for the last 20 years most recently. Tell you about where I'm at. Sure. Okay. I have an office called Axiom Counseling and Therapy Services.

Here in Wichita, Kansas.

And so I've been there about seven years. We've been open, so, so tell me about your family. My family, I'm married almost 30 years. All right. Yep. I have three wonderful children. My oldest her husband live here in town.

And I'm expecting my first grandchild and about. Five months. And I'm very excited about that. And that child is going to be spoiled horribly. I've already dedicated my life to that part of it. So anyway, so we're looking forward to that. And then I have two boys that one's in human resources and one's in at K State studying speech pathology.

So he's working through that and that'll be another couple, three years before he's out. So your oldest is how old? He's 24. And your youngest is 22. 22, 24 and 26. It's really easy to figure that. I mean, just that, that skip, you know,

Adam Gragg: Uhhuh. I thought you had five kids. No. Oh no. Oh my gosh. Why do I think you had five kids?

I dunno, who are these kids?

Todd Nickel: I've seen them at your house. I can't even imagine. Four. I, so three is perfect . Okay. So yeah.

Adam Gragg: Okay. So, [00:06:00] you know, and I thought Todd would be just a great guest to talk about relationships because he's had, and what I've seen is a really strong marraige. And I see him relating to his kids and the relationship he's built with his kids.

And so I've really admired that. And also I've seen Todd learn how to stay calm in difficult situations. And so I thought he had some real great life experience to share with everybody that's gonna be valuable today. And you know, I'm gonna ask him questions, he's gonna share, we're gonna banter, you know, whatever.

I'm gonna make 'em really uncomfortable. Maybe, hopefully not, maybe not. So we'll see. So, but I, this topic right here, so people, when they come to someone, Todd, a counselor, A lot of times they want to be fixed. They have some kind of problem and they want a goal and outcome. You know, they got a relational problem, emotional problem, they got some grief, whatever.

They're stuck in some way, you know? And they come to me as a coach too, with some kind of way they're stuck, you know? They know they want a new career, but they don't know how to get there. And people are often impatient in that process. It's okay, fix me. You know? It's first session. What? When I'm not done?

, giving kind of what our marriage isn't fixed after this, whatever.

Todd Nickel: That's a really [00:07:00] common question during a first session, they'll say, so how long do you think this is gonna take? And that's obviously a question that can't be answered right away. But yeah, it's a very common question.

Yeah.

Adam Gragg: . Then they're mad when you haven't fixed 'em. Exactly. , . So you want to come back? No, I mean, and yeah. So. The reason I think this is so important from a coaching perspective is because if you don't have good relationships and if you don't have a good sense of self-worth and you don't know how to regulate your emotions and deal with those emotions, then you're gonna be really stuck and at a disadvantage and you can't build and even have the clarity.

So when you get. The foundation lay the benefit is that you're gonna stop, you know, overreacting, you're gonna stop. I mean, doing damage to your physical health. Cause emotional problems can do you damage to your mental, physical health, relational health, you know, not dealing with emotions, relationships, well, you're gonna be isolated, potentially.

You're gonna feel, I mean, self-fulfilling prophecy, you're kind of gonna approach people without confidence and you're gonna get that kind of same result back because people pick up on that emotionally. But the benefits are amazing. And so, as I think about it, you know, if we build a life. [00:08:00] That has more positive and much more.

We're accumulating positives. We have things we're excited about and enjoying, and we're excited about things later in the day, excited about things in our life in the future, even 10 years from now. It's gonna change everything. And so when we have a good foundation, it gives us insight and clarity on what's next.

It helps us make decisions, have more fun, relaxed, and clear. Just see what's ahead that's positive. And so not being stuck any longer. And now what I want you to do is an action real quick right now. So take the time to write down somebody that you wanna have a better relationship with in your life. It could be somebody that maybe you don't know very you, a colleague possibly that you have some tension with, or it could be a person you're really close with, but you wanna rekindle that relationship.

So if you're driving, don't do that right now. I mean, you can put talk into your phone, something like that. And then after that I want you to write down an emotion. probably the emotion that you most dislike Experie feeling. Okay? So write that down and think about that. And so at the end of this podcast, you're gonna have tools to actually cope with this.

And you're gonna have some takeaways on that. Cuz I, I hate to feel rejection. , I mean, or embarrassment. I just, I mean, and I've had [00:09:00] some major embarrassments in my life. Just the things that have happened in my, I mean, I've shared things that happen in my marriage and things. Career professionally. I was tremendously embarrassed 2008, 2009.

I mean, because I didn't, it took me seven months to get a new job. I mean, but a lot of people were struggling. But I thought, and I'd personalize it, like there's something wrong with me, like I'm messed up. So that's the stuff we're gonna talk about today. So Todd, what are some of the common challenges that people have in relationships?

that they come to you with?

Todd Nickel: Well, the biggest one obviously is going to be communication. They just have a difficult time. I think we all get in our heads at times that we, you know, I wanna get this point across. I want people to understand exactly what this message is, but they have a hard time actually putting that out in a way that they, I don't know, the way they intend, I guess is a good way to say that.

And so just being able to slow down long enough just to get your thoughts together and making sure that the other person underst. What they're trying to say. I think that's probably the biggest thing is just communication. Okay. And time is another one too. I mean, we just live in a, just a go, go society.

So it's really [00:10:00] difficult for people to kind of come together and find that time together. So that's a lot of what I see.

Adam Gragg: So they want more time together. Yeah they, they they do. Yes. Yeah. And they don't know how to get it right in their life.

Todd Nickel: Right. Okay. Busyness, I guess is a good way to, okay.

Adam Gragg: Yeah. So what do you tell 'em? Like just slow down ?

Todd Nickel: Yeah. I mean, come on. See how easy that is. What we do is we start looking at what priorities are and exactly what long-term goals are for people. And I think that's kind of it unique anymore when somebody sits down and says, tell me a little bit about who you are.

Tell me what you want. Tell me what this long-term vision looks like. And being able for them to sit down long enough during a session and say, wow. Nobody's ever really asked me what I'm going for. And so, that's what we do. I mean, I start off with that in letting them prioritize, you know, their life.

Adam Gragg: That's what they really want in this relationship with their marriage, with their kids, with whatever. Absolutely. And they tell you, they've never been actually asked that. A lot of times they don't. Which is amazing because you think that's kind of a basic. But people, you would think you, well, I know, but people, that's why counseling's so valuable.

Because it gives you a chance to slow down, have these questions asked, right. That people aren't gonna ask you because it's so busy, [00:11:00] you think, I mean, they're not thinking about what they really want. I think

Todd Nickel: that people just assume it's gonna happen. I mean, once you. Get married, you start a family and it's just kind of organically happens and things come together and, but it doesn't, it takes strategy, it takes time, it takes focus it takes energy.

And it takes a lot of selflessness to make sure I say that right, selflessness and not selfishness. But it takes a lot of work. It's not just a, you know, wake up one morning and they're we're at the end of. the journey. It just doesn't work that way.

Adam Gragg: And so communication is, there's something that you, or any tips that you teach them with communication?

Todd Nickel: I have about well, there, I call it a safeguard. So I have like nine different steps that I won't go all the way through those necessarily highlights are. Yeah. But but there's about nine steps to safeguard a relationship for effective and appropriate communication. And basically what I want to do, a lot of times when people are trying to communicate with one another, They feel vulnerable, they feel stuck.

They're scared that it's not gonna happen, or they're afraid it's gonna go right into some sort of argument or some kind of conflict and it doesn't have to. So one of the things that I do is I just have them set and [00:12:00] say the first step is just agree. Do we agree that things need to change?

Things need to get better. And once we can get to that agreement and then they feel like they're on the same page, then things tend to automatically start to, to wind down a little bit, or at least the anxiety level seems to deescalate. Okay. So there's just different things I can do. try to coach them on in order to make sure.

that their conversations are not sharp and they're not conflictual necessarily. Conflict is not necessarily a bad thing. Right. I think it has, that word has a bad rap. Right? Right. But conflict is not necessarily because it's conflict is not combative. Right. Or it doesn't have to be combative.

Right. We just make it that way.

Adam Gragg: Conflict can mean progress. Absolutely. It's done the right way. Right? . Yeah. And so how do you do conflict the right way? You're trying to talking about that right now, right?

Todd Nickel: Absolutely. Yeah. Teach the communication, teach good communication, good listening skills, good speaking skills, understanding who your partner is, you're waiting to and knowing exactly how to feed into what their hopes and dreams and desires are.

And really, I mean, it seems simplified, but the best way to do that is to stop and listen. Just stop and listen. Yeah. Right. That's the way you start.

Adam Gragg: And so what are some of the common [00:13:00] misconceptions people have about relationships?

Todd Nickel: Well, like I said earlier, I think one misconception is that they think it just happens organically.

I'm in love and therefore it's just gonna work out well. You need to put a little bit of effort into it, a little bit of work into it. I think that's one of the biggest things that I've seen with marriage issues is that, you know, over time that we lose sight of what it meant to be a couple. You know, once you start having children and things happen like that, you kind of get into this rut or this routine of this is how we make life work.

And the last thing that we put effort into is keeping that couplehood alive. And so that's one of the things Okay. That we need to pay attention to so that it happens organically. It doesn't not necessarily anyway.

Adam Gragg: That listening thing, you know, I had Emerson last week, she told me that.

And I had no idea, but I said after dinner, Hey, let's go to the Y and work out. And we've been going after dinner to work out at the Y or swim or do something for years and years. . And then the last couple weeks she's been really resistant with that and I couldn't figure out why exactly, but she told me, and I was really proud of her for sharing this.

She said basically, you know, when you challenge me to go to the Y I feel [00:14:00] like you're not happy with me. Like you think I'm not healthy or I'm not. You know, and, but she had to explain that to me. And it changed things. Cause I had no idea that was in her interpretation of it. . Right. And people can misinterpret what they think's being said and then it's totally opposite.

Absolutely. So do you have any kind of tool you use with people to make sure they understand accurately or clearly or not, and don't misinterpret what they think they heard?

Todd Nickel: I've heard always heard that when you're in a communication or a conversation with somebody, that you listen and then you repeat it back to make sure that you're, you know, you understand what they're trying to say.

And I guess on the surface level. I think that's really good. But I think it's more of intent too. So asking good questions is what it is. It's not just, did you say this? But it's like, okay, why is that important to you? Help me to understand. So once you understand where a person is coming from and why they even have that feeling, it's a lot easier to I don't know, to help meet that need to understand exactly what they want to understand the intent and the motivation behind the request or the hurt, you know?

Yeah. And so that's one of the things that what we try to. Just listen and ask good questions. They should

Adam Gragg: ask Emerson like, [00:15:00] why is this so important? Yeah. Yeah.

Todd Nickel: Well, I think so. Yeah. Because think about when she shared that with you, how easy that was to kind of rectify that situation after she shared it.

Absolutely.

Adam Gragg: When she, I still wanted to go to the gym though. I was like,

Todd Nickel: that's when you tell her. You tell her it's cause I want to, nothing to do with you. I get lonely, you know, I just, come on. I

Adam Gragg: like, this is fun. We didn't, we done this her whole life. Yeah. But then she was able to say like, you know, Because I was able to say, it's so important for my mental, emotional health to go and exercise and have routine and things like that.

Right? And then she was like, well, we can be active in other ways. And I said, well, how can we do that? You know? She said, well, we can go on a walk, you know? And we can go take the dog. Right? And it was. cold, I think last. , well, maybe not that night, but . She gave me some ideas of things that she thought and I wouldn't have gotten there had she not shared more.

So Max needs a walk. I mean, max needs to walk. Absolutely. You can't run. Yeah, exactly. Max is my dog, a 13 year old Gordon Setter. So, and so, what are some of the common emotional problems? Cause as we talk about this, we're gonna mix emotions with relationships. They're highly connected that you experience from clients they shared with you.

What are common emotional issues that people come to? It can be personally or relationally, I [00:16:00] mean,

Todd Nickel: well, I mean there's a lot, there's a variety of course, but some of the emotional things, I think a lot of times especially since I've noticed this, since Covid, you know, but the emotional part of it is either anxiety has created loneliness or that isolation and separation.

And I don't know that people do that well. I mean, I think they're getting better at it, and I don't think that's a great thing necessarily, but that isolation part of it and just feeling. Lonely feeling like there's no, no connection with people. So I see a lot of that, at least frequently or lately in the last couple years, I've seen a lot of that.

Okay. That that disconnect from people. So that's one part of it. And again, the depression part of it. I mean, I don't know if you're looking at, if that's what you're asking about, anxiety, depressions, loneliness, and isolation. Yeah, I mean that, that's pretty much a lot of what I see right now,

Adam Gragg: what makes it so that people are scared of relationships? Or that contributes. Cause it feels like loneliness is very common.

Todd Nickel: That's part of it. Right. But there's that whole, that word that people hate too. It's vulnerability. I mean, when you make yourself vulnerable, I mean, what we're asking you to do.

If I'm asking my wife to be vulnerable with [00:17:00] me, I'm asking her to share with me everything that she hates about herself and everything that she is worried about that she's not confident. I mean that, that's pretty rough. I mean, for people to just share that and to be transparent and vulnerable with somebody else, I think that's what scares them about about relationships, about getting deeper.

It is just having to bear themselves in front of somebody else. Uhhuh,

Adam Gragg: what makes people scared about building new relationships?

Todd Nickel: Well, I think it's kind of the same thing, just putting themselves out there. And I don't think, you know, I'm gonna go, I'm showing my age with this and everything, but this whole social media thing of not learning how to to interact with people on a face-to-face level.

And it's all done via screen. And so they don't have to be quite as vulnerable, quite as transparent with one another. But I think they don't know how to respond to other people. On a person to person basis. I've seen now, granted, I've seen a lot of like high school students and college students in that and maybe young, younger adults that have a difficult time putting themselves out there, not knowing how to do it.

So it's the lack of experience, lack of trying. But that, that really scares 'em to have to get [00:18:00] out there and say, hello, my name is. That is awkward. Yeah. And nobody wants to feel awkward. Right? Right.

Adam Gragg: So I'm gonna make you, I'll put you on the spot a little bit. What's the emotion that you most dislike feeling?

Me personally? Yeah. I mentioned rejection and embarrassment, like, for me. Yeah.

Todd Nickel: I think mine is probably embarrassment as well. I mean, I like to joke around a lot. I like to, you know, not much just me. I have a dry, I have a dry sense of humor, I call it like that, sharp wit whatever, but and I can do that with people and it doesn't bother me, but if I do something that I that might appear stupid or silly, it's just I don't do the embarrassment.

Well, and I don't, I can feel it just kind of wash over my face. Yeah. Which is just, yeah. I don't love that at all. Don't like embarrassing. No. Huh. And it really isn't, when you think about it, it's not that big a deal. No. You know, somebody laughs at it, we laugh at it and you know, ha, you go on about your business and everything is fine.

Yeah. But for some reason I just have a bear of a time getting past that. Okay.

Adam Gragg: Yeah. Yeah. I would say, it's funny, the embarrassment I said is the scariest emotion for me, cuz I actually do. [00:19:00] Embarrassing things. Sometimes I embarrass other people. Unfortunately, I won't wanna do that. But I mean, you know, when you're a prankster, you kind of do things.

I've, I seen you do some of those things. I know. And you've been a victim of one of those pranks before. Yeah. That was great. And it it totally freaked me out. Yeah. , it did actually, I did that prank on a group over Zoom last night. I have a old man costume. You can see it on my YouTube channel.

Decide your Legacy. See some of these pranks if you want. But I scare people. I don't really scare 'em. I mean, trying to just have fun, but, You know,

Todd Nickel: it is the most realistic looking mask I've ever seen.

Adam Gragg: It's pretty realistic. Yes. Yes. And it's going to improve over time as well, because you know, he ages over time as well.

Old man, rusty. So what, oh man. What are then, if people are terrified of relationships, so then what are suggestions that you give people if they wanna make new friends? , I mean, that sounds like a silly thing when someone 40 years old says they wanna make new friends, but what are some practical things they can.

Todd Nickel: Well, we start talking, first of all, it goes, it starts with just making them feel comfortable with what they're trying to do. I mean, so we'll sit [00:20:00] down, we'll have a whole conversation, maybe a whole session conversation about where do you feel most comfortable? What are you trying you know, what kind of friend are you trying to make?

And why are you trying to make this friend? Where do you feel like you're deficient in your life? And do you need that socialization? Do you need somebody who's gonna be more of a spiritual mentor buddy to you or somebody that you go go to a sporting event with? Oh, what are we looking for? And then we start I start asking questions to get them to figure out where's the most logical place to find those type of people.

People with a like mind or some affinity level. What is, so we start talking through that. And then once you talk about what it looks like and where it's at it takes a lot of the fear away. because it seems natural. Like, oh yeah I do that too. I like that. And I like to go to those places and, okay. So, and then I do, what I do with my with my clients is I always try to give them a challenge when they leave my session because sitting down and talking to me, don't get me wrong, it's great.

I've always telling you it's off awesome that you come in and talk to me once a week, once every other week, but your life is happening outside there. So I always wanna send them away with some sort of practical applications. They want you to try this and then report back. And so there's some [00:21:00] accountability with that.

So once we've kind of normalized a place for them to go or a thing for them to do, then I push them out of the nest, so to speak, and okay, say, let's go try this. And then we come back and we We decompress or we kind of evaluate and see how it went and what they were looking for, what they saw that was different than what they anticipated.

So that's kind of what I do. I dunno if that answered the question.

Adam Gragg: Yeah, that does. I mean it's cuz they're getting out and actually putting themselves in an environment where they could make a new friend. Right. So do they usually follow through with that challenge?

Todd Nickel: Usually now sometimes though it will take two and three promptings, you know, after two or three sessions cuz it is a little bit nerve-wracking.

And it's very intimidating to say, wait a minute, you want me to do what? And it's kind of my little version of exposure therapy where, you know, we actually get 'em and, you know, afraid of. Heights and you take 'em on the rollercoaster, you take them to, you know, to walk across the bridge,

Adam Gragg: the rollercoaster.

Yeah. There you go. That's a good way of thinking about it. Yeah. Do you ever say like, I'll be your friend, let's go get pizza ?

Todd Nickel: I've never done that. I don't do that. I don't think that would be, I don't think that would be appropriate, but Yeah, exactly. That would, but my goal is to get them to have a friend that will have pizza with them.

Yeah, exactly.

Adam Gragg: And have you [00:22:00] had situations where they've come back and been shocked? Like, I made, like I connected with somebody and like this is possible.

Todd Nickel: Yeah, some that really is there have been going back to your previous statement. There have been times I've really wanted, when I've given them an assignment to do and I said, okay, go to this particular place.

There's everything that's in me that wants to go like 15 minutes ahead of them and sit at a different table and just watch. I mean, I really wanna do that. I have never done that. Cause I think. Inappropriate. But I, yeah, I know I've always wanted to just cuz I love to see it in action. I'd love to see it when that takes place.

And I love to see when that light bulb comes on, just like, wow, this can work. This can do. Yeah. So I do love that

Adam Gragg: I will actually challenge clients in a session if they'll say, they're saying, I got this friend, I haven't reached out to them in a year. Whatever. Like, Hey, you want to text him now and see what they're up to and just right in the session?

Yeah. And they're like, no. Are you sure? Well, okay, I'll, why not? And then they text him and then they. I mean, it's in the moment before they can let fear kind of set in.

Todd Nickel: That's a good way to say that before fear sets in.

Adam Gragg: Yeah. And talk themselves out of it. Yeah. So, so why do you think people have trouble with emotions that are so [00:23:00] powerful?

Like fear and sadness and grief and what can they do when those emotions overwhelm them. Right.

Todd Nickel: Well, mainly it's cuz we don't know what to do. They're so unknown and unfamiliar. We don't know what to do. It's, it feels. Overwhelming, of course. .

Adam Gragg: It's just a strong emotion. We, they're scary or

Todd Nickel: they're, they are scary and we don't know what to do with them cuz they don't come every single day. So when they come so infrequently like that, it's almost like a new experience every single time. So you don't have time to, to kind of figure out what is my routine or what is my response to that?

It just comes so quickly and I think that's why people are afraid of those strong emotions. So what do we do as I try to create a really safe environment within my office though, and say, let's just experience them. So if they're trying to push them away, I invite them back in a lot.

Yeah. And say, let's just kinda live through this moment for a little bit and I'll. A lot of it is just talking them through it. So what are you experiencing now? And tell me what that feels like and what you're doing with that. And I think it's a little bit easier for them to feel or to be, to get more comfortable if they have somebody else who's guiding them through it.

Instead of just like, what do I do? What do I do? You [00:24:00] know, and frantically trying to figure out how to feel about it. So,

Adam Gragg: You kind of hit on this, but what are the misconceptions people have about emotions? What's the role of emotions, right? I mean, it's kind of, they're these scary things that people don't really understand.

Yeah.

Todd Nickel: This is gonna sound weird, but I usually have this struggle mainly with men, is that emotions mean you have to be emotional. And I think that we have define those a little bit differently. The emotions, of course, is what's going on inside of is the emotional means that the demonstration or the demonstrative actions outward.

And so I have a lot of people who come in. Specifically males who think that they have to become emotional, they have to become weepy. They have to, you know, just you know, that I, every time they come in, I'm gonna offer them the Kleenex box or something like that. That's not exactly what that is.

So one of them is explaining what this is, what emotion is, and this is what emotionality is. So tell me how comfortable you are with displaying or demonstrating your emotions. And that usually gets them. Okay. Going a little bit. And so you define between the two.

Adam Gragg: The two. So like a boss that's really [00:25:00] angry and like kind of yells at their employees and stuff. Mm-hmm. Is that being emotional or, I

Todd Nickel: think that's being emotional. Emotional. That's why I would define that.

Adam Gragg: Oh, is that how you were when you managed Chick-fil-A?

Todd Nickel: That's exactly, no, I was always happy to be there. That is not to oversell it, that is the greatest company in the entire world.

I'm telling you. I'm not gonna, is that your first job outta college? My, my first job outta Col first job

Adam Gragg: in high school. It was Chick-fil-A. Yeah. Ah, yeah. Okay. That was a long, that was a long time ago, huh? It Well, but then you were the manager. How did you work for

Todd Nickel: Chick-fil-A? Well, golly, I started in 1980.

Okay. When I was in high school. Yeah. My first job out of college when I graduated in 89. 89. So I think I all told I worked 15 or 16 years. I can't really remember. For Chick-fil-A, right?

Adam Gragg: . I didn't know that. Wow. A long time. Yep. And you never yelled at any of your employees? No. Well, , I

Todd Nickel: know you're lying.

I know there's some employees that still live here in town,

so

Adam Gragg: you're gonna get some stuff, get some heat here. I gotta church with somebody, a young manager. I'm sure you got emotional.

Todd Nickel: It was, yeah. At times. I'm sure I did Uhhuh. , but. Yeah, no, I, a boss yelling at employee, honestly. Yes. That [00:26:00] is an emotion, emotional response

Adam Gragg: kind of thing.

So in the midst of sadness or anger or emotion, and you're in the grips of it. So what could you do or what suggestions would you have to get out of the grips to know it's gonna pass and it's not, to not let it consume you.

Todd Nickel: Of course, the most obvious one right, is take a deep breath. And that's one of the hardest things to do because when you get in that moment and it starts really overtaking you the first thing you need to do is.

I mean physically and literally take a step backwards maybe, and take a deep breath to kind of let your heart rate go down a little bit. But that's also the hardest thing to do. . But if you can kind of train yourself. So one, a good trick with this too though, is practice doing that before you need it.

So if something is maybe a little bit stressful or a little bit anger inducing maybe but it's not too much. Practice it, step back, take a deep breath and kind of process your thoughts for a few seconds. And that way when you really do need it, when something just emphatically or it just directly hits you and you're like, I'm gonna go over the top here, I'm hoping that your body has a different kind of response to that.

Yeah. And it's kinda like that muscle memory is like, wait a minute, I feel myself getting agitated, so I need to step back. So, You're [00:27:00] helping yourself a little bit. So preparing

Adam Gragg: in advance cuz you, you're have those Absolutely. And that, would that mean maybe journaling if it's gonna be a tough conversation Right.

To about how to be assertive and calmly present it.

Todd Nickel: That's exactly, and the preparation part of it is great. I mean, let's face it, we're just human beings. We're going to have all these different emotions that come up. We're gonna get angry at times. It's gonna hit us. Yeah. So, and knowing what you're going to do and making a plan, we're not perfect.

Right, right. So, but it's gonna take a little bit of time, a little bit of effort, and it's gonna, Practice is what it's gonna do well, what do

Adam Gragg: you, well, how do you feel about in a moment, you know, just taking a time out like, I'm just, and then two or three minutes and come back. Is that okay?

Todd Nickel: Again? I think that's a great idea if you can actually do it.

Yeah. So part of you know, I mentioned earlier about having some safeguards with conversations. One of those things that I allow my couples to do is what I call an adult timeout, which if you feel yourself getting to the point where you're gonna say something or do something that is not good, then you take that.

Two or three minutes and you step away and you process your thoughts, you kind of analyze 'em and you come back. But here's the trick [00:28:00] with that. There's always a little caveat that goes with it. If you're the one that says, I need this time out for three minutes, you go you get your thoughts together, get your wits together, and you come back in three minutes.

You don't come back in four minutes or five minutes cuz then that changes the dynamic and kind of, kind of the power. S. Okay. The really, the only reason I did it was cuz I needed to get my words together. And I hate to you know, say this, but a lot of times people will use that time out as an escape plan.

And say, give gimme a few minutes, let me think this through. And then you never see them again. It's a manipulative tactic. Yeah, absolutely. It's so, you gotta be very, okay. You gotta trusting for one another, but I think it's a good idea. .

Adam Gragg: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so I wanna take a little break for a second, a little pause, and more questions for Todd, but if you have found this podcast helpful, remember to hit the link to shatterproof yourself.

Seven Simple Steps to building the Foundation for your Legacy. So you don't wanna miss that. It covers relationships, it covers very practical things. There's a workbook for it as well. And it's a video. It's me talking, you get to see me like you want to, I'm sure. But you get to see me and go through this whole process here.

So I was thinking again about emotional reaction. So one time, , I smelled some people [00:29:00] smoking Pohto out in front of my apartment complex. And Emerson was nine. . And she was riding her bike out there, and she was riding out with her friend. And I remember the friend's name, I won't share it, but that and they were like, what's that smell? You know? And I'm like, oh my gosh. It was like, it just, I just got infuriated. Yeah. Because I knew where it was coming from and it was. The brothers of somebody live in the complex. And so I went over and I said, Hey, you guys smoking Pohto? And they're like, they So they got outta the car?

Yeah. And they basically said, it's done your business. I'm like, just please go do that in the apartment or whatever. Yeah. And then they drove off and then out nowhere I gave him the finger, I mean out of, I don't know where it came from, but I did. And they came to a screeching halt and the guy popped out of his car and he pushed me, Uhhuh.

And then I said, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have done that. And then the guy pushed me again and I was not like backing down. But I'm like, you guys just, you know, go and do that in your apartment. It's not, there's little girls out here mm-hmm. and they don't wanna, you know, I have no problem with what you're doing, as long as you do it in private, do whatever you wanna do in private. So anyway, and then the end being a big ordeal. But I thought about that now. , you know, emotions [00:30:00] can get you in trouble. , because that was right.

Stupid thing I could've gotten shot, you know? Honestly, I mean, cause I was anger before, before you even knew what you were doing it just before. I mean, who knows that again? I mean, you know, that's just like, and that's what the, that's what I've talked to police officer friends and they're like, don't do that kind of stuff.

You know what I'm saying? Like I know that now. I know that now. But I mean, don't handle this on your own. It's just not wise. Can you describe what emotional intelligence is?

Todd Nickel: I, you know, I know we've talked about this before. Yeah, that's a hard one for me. But the emotional intelligence, the best I can do, and it's probably not great, but it is just knowing what you feel, why you feel it, and what you're going to do about it.

I don't know if that's a very good definition at all, but that's the best way I can come up with emotionally just knowing what you're feeling and why.

Adam Gragg: And how can you, if people have trouble knowing what they're feeling, how can they learn how to know what they're feeling?

Todd Nickel: Well, a lot of it is gonna be talk.

I mean, granted I do this for a living, but I think that going to counseling and having somebody, it's that self-awareness, learning about yourself is the best way to do that is go to a counselor, go to a therapist and just say, okay, I'm trying to figure this out, this life [00:31:00] skill, and it truly is a life skill.

I'm trying to figure these things out in order to have better relationships with family, with friends, with employers, employees. So I would say that's the best way to do that. And if you're just not willing to do that, read a book. I mean, there is an emotional intelligence book out, little bit wordy, but it's a good book, but I'm sure there's lots of different books out there that you could get and say, this is kind of where we're going with that.

Yeah. The Enneagram stuff, which I like Personality stuff. Yeah. Any of that personality stuff would

Adam Gragg: help you understand yourself. As well. Yeah. I never thought about that. But that can help you understand how you're gonna, what your tendencies might be. Right.

Todd Nickel: And why you act the way that you and Grant, I'm not, you know, an any, I've not studied a lot of that, so, but I'm thinking, yeah.

That's what the purpose of that is.

Adam Gragg: That is really important. Cuz I think if you go and you talk to people about how you're feeling, you sort of unpack it and understand why, because sometimes I'm feeling something and then it's not until I actually talk to a friend about it, do I understand what really triggered that emotion?

Right. I'm like, this is just a really bad day. . And maybe there was some kind of like, it's. A date when someone passed away or it's something that I don't know, sometimes. Right. And, but they can help me and point out like maybe it's [00:32:00] this, or maybe it's that there's a trigger there somewhere. It is a trigger there somewhere.

. And then how do you feel about, just for a day, maybe writing down what you feel at certain times of the day. Like, I'm feeling this. Mm-hmm. And then,

Todd Nickel: Well, and that's what I believe too, is that there's always some sort of pattern. It may not look like a pattern, but writing and journaling is great.

And I would like to say that I love journaling. I love the concept. I wish I was better at it. I'm kind of sporadic on my, a personal level with that. But from a therapeutic standpoint, it is awesome. So you start to looking at all your entries and then all of a sudden you can start seeing, well, wait a minute.

Looks like every. Seven days or nine days or something like that. I tend to get in more of a depressed type of state instead. So what else has happened here that, well, have you been sleeping or have you been working extra hours? Oh yeah, that, that makes sense. Or I haven't been able to talk with my friends or family for that long cuz I've been so busy.

Well of course that's the way that works. But we start looking for those patterns and that very

Adam Gragg: good point cuz maybe you haven't worked out in a while. Absolutely. Maybe haven't gotten any sunshine or gotten while you're looking at me when you say that I'm not, there's nothing personal. But see, you're acting like Emerson go

That's , [00:33:00] yeah. You know, so that's a good, and if you talk to people and have good communication, you realize that. There's misunderstanding that you never thought would've been there. Right. Right. Because people feel like, oh my gosh, they're, they don't like me. You know? Or somebody's gonna judge me.

And then you talk to somebody Yeah. About it and you realize that it's actually something inside of me. And not something.

Todd Nickel: And we tend to go to the most catastrophic or the most horrible thoughts just as human nature. We do. And I don't know where that originated necessarily, but I think the majority of us tend to go to that worst case scenario of why they're not talking.

Yeah. Why they. You know, sometimes if somebody snubs you in the store, they didn't see you. I mean, it's just as simple as that. Yeah. You know, I'm looking for this particular item in the store and I did not see you standing.

Adam Gragg: Very simple. And it wasn't anything personal. No. But we just took it personal.

Todd Nickel: Oh, absolutely. And we, then we create that narrative, that whole story that goes along,

Adam Gragg: you know? Yeah, absolutely. And that can be just like a consume a day. I mean, I mean it can just take the air outta life right there. And so if you had, you know, the journaling topic, I'm really glad you brought that up, Todd Cuz Last podcast number 55, I was, had a guest, Nick.

[00:34:00] Bertram on journaling and so you may wanna check that out cuz he has some really great insight cuz he is somebody that was a skeptic that became a fan. Oh yeah. When it comes to journaling. And so what is grief? Okay. That's misunderstood often.

Todd Nickel: Okay.

Can I go back to just journaling one? Absolutely. One, one second real quick. Okay. And here's why. Like I'm a big proponent of when you have take some time to carve out for yourself, to use, sit down and think about whatever issue we're dealing with in counseling or things like that. I'm a huge proponent of writing things down and it doesn't have to necessarily.

I always tell people it doesn't have to start off like it was a dark and stormy night or anything like that. It can just be bullet points of what you're thinking at that particular time. Cuz my belief is that when you have a chance to go back in two days or three days or four days later, you can look at it and it kind of takes on a life of its own at that point.

And you can say, oh wow, that's exactly what I was thinking. Or I've had that same thought like five times in the last two weeks. It must mean something. So you go, can go back there and say, that really encapsulates everything I was thinking about and that really describes that emotion. And you can circle it, underline it, you can start dealing with that.

Or you can look at that and say, yeah, I was really [00:35:00] hungry. Yeah. And I was in a bad mood so I can cross that off. Cuz that's really not what I, you know, a part of who I am. But so I love journaling and writing that stuff down. So if you're not somebody who necessarily likes to write in paragraph form, most of my entries and notes are just like bullet points.

Yeah. So it keeps me on track of where I am and what I'm thinking on a consistent basis, and then going back and reviewing it Absolutely. So anyway, so sorry about that. I wanted to

Adam Gragg: head backwards and that's very, it's very good. And I think the reason I brought up grief is because clients will have a, you know, a loss in their life.

You know, they lost a job. Mm-hmm. ,, or I've had clients that have lost their health. And one of my best friends had to deal with some health, is still dealing with some health. Challenges, you know, that were totally unexpected. He had a stroke. And people there's grief in all kinds of different forms.

It could be, I mean, we think maybe someone lost a kid or they lost a brother. They lost a parent. But it's a lot of forms of grief and I think that's kind of misunderstood. Right. And it can be something, I mean, a divorce, I mean, that was, that's a huge, as part of grief too, I mean, even changing careers to one that you really like.

[00:36:00] Like we you know, have like maybe, you know, Brian. Guy, this is my podcast. You know, if he changed his career to doing podcasting full-time, he could grieve potentially not even be, not even know it. But if you're in a field, you know, he's an engineer, he's an aeronautical engineer. I mean, he can surprise you.

Yeah, absolutely. So what, what is grief in your kind of definition?

Todd Nickel: Oh wow. Okay. That is a big one. A grief would be what? It's just the. , the loss of, or the change of something that's expected. I mean, so if we talk about the loss of life, the loss of a loved one, I mean, we have this plan on what life is supposed to look like and the trajectory of what we're supposed to do from now and basically forever is what we're thinking.

But, you know, and so when we lose somebody, it's not all of a sudden I have to reconfigure or recalibrate everything that I planned on. So, if you take that same kind. Philosophy. In theory, it's the same thing of losing a job or a divorce or a friendship relationship, whatever. It's just the change of what we anticipated.

And some of 'em, of course are gonna be a lot heavier, you know, the loss of loved one. I, yeah. And I know you know this, but I lost my dad [00:37:00] about six months ago and I still. trying to figure out how that grieving process works, to be honest with you. Yeah, I mean, so I work with people who are grieving but it's just different.

I mean, so I wish there was like a one stop shop. You could say, oh, this is what you do. You know, when you at this level, you're gonna do this level, this timeframe, you're gonna do this. But it's not, it's just so nebulous. I mean, it's just so arbitrary.

Adam Gragg: So what has been. And kind of getting personal here.

. I just think this is so helpful for the audience cuz you have a real life experience that's fresh and everything. So what's been helpful or not helpful from other people? helping you with the loss of your dad.

Todd Nickel: Well, I'm still dealing with it, still going through that, so I'm not a, I don't know if I can put it.

Finger right on that. I will note tell you though, after talking with some other friends who have had some significant losses, one of the best things to do is to be able to talk freely about the loss. The person that is the absolute best. You know, you hear all these little, like platitudes and all these little, I, and I know they're ni, they're people are trying to be nice and comforting.

But I can encourage you if you really don't know what to say and you have to come up with one, [00:38:00] just say nothing and just say, you know, I'm so sorry that this is where we're at. That's probably the best one. But being able to talk with and say the name of that person is just pivotal. Just say their name.

Absolutely. Because people won't say the name right. They will not they're afraid to bring, bring it up. Cuz they're afraid it's gonna be painful. Well, guess what? It's painful. It's always gonna be painful. Oh, I don't know, about five years ago I did, I was working as a clinical director at a church here in town on their counseling center.

And we did a Christmas service for people who had lost a loved one either that year or, you know, fairly recently. And we had, oh, I anticipated maybe 15 or 20 people, but word got out in the community. I think we had like a hundred, probably 150 people there. But one of the most pivotal, or one of the most wonderful things that we did is when they came in, they actually wrote the name of their loved one on a card.

And then during the service we would get up and we would read every single person's name. And that's when you saw people start to like, You could tell this deep breath, like, wow, somebody actually said it. I don't, you know. So I think being able to just talk freely. [00:39:00] Yeah. And not feel like you have to quote, comfort them, but just say, Hey, take me in this conversation.

Where are we going? Where you at? So, yeah. Yeah. It's tough though.

Adam Gragg: Hard one. That's a tough one. . So, so is it okay to ask 'em what they miss about

Todd Nickel: Yes. You think that's personal like that? Yes. That's okay. I think it's great. Yeah? Yeah. Okay. What do you miss? I mean, especially if it's somebody that I haven't met.

You know, if, let's say somebody comes to my office and I will just ask 'em those questions, tell me what quality of your dad, what quality of your dad do you possess? You know, tell me what is the one thing you're taking. That people would say, oh man, you just like your dad in that. I wanna know that I'm wanna, I wanna hear his name, what did he do for a living?

And you just ask all those questions. Okay. Tell me your favorite memory of, you know, Christmas With him. Yeah. What did he do? That was funny. Yeah. Or goofy,

Adam Gragg: you know.

So what's something you miss about your dad?

Todd Nickel: He was quiet German. He was quiet, but he always had. A pretty good sense of humor.

And even in the later stages he had what was called frontotemporal dementia. So he was, he lost his ability to speak, [00:40:00] About two years ago. So we had pretty quiet, but it was funny. He still understood everything that was going on, but if you would make a joke or something, he would just get a grin on his face and you could see him kind of chuckling.

I, I missed that, just that look. Yeah. Yeah. And when mom would get frustrated with him, because she couldn't get, he couldn't get her to understand something and she'd get frustrated. I don't know if that, Made him laugh, which made her angrier. Yeah. And I know that's not a good thing, but as the child of that hilarious tell me, it was great

Adam Gragg: watching. It was hilarious. Was funny. It was funny. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you sharing.

Yeah. Yeah. So it, it's a. That's a process for sure. What's his name? What was Bill? Bill, bill Nickel. William?

Todd Nickel: No, Billy Bill. Like b i l I E. Like Okay. Like a woman would spell it and

Adam Gragg: I'm like, why? That was his born name? Billy. Okay. Billy. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So he's a great guy. Yeah, he is a great guy. I can tell.

Yeah, he's a great guy. . So, okay. Couple, one, one last question I got for Todd, and then we're gonna kind of wrap it up. So, what is a crazy experience that you've had [00:41:00] as a therapist that you can share, you know, ?

Todd Nickel: Well, the crazy, honestly, the craziest one, then, this has been years ago, I mean, probably 15, 16 years ago.

I had a guy that come, came in that he thought, I don't know if we can say this or not. He thought people were fo the people were following him. Uhhuh . And it was, it had some paranoia. Uhhuh and some issues with that. Yeah. And he honestly thought that people were taping him and videotaping him and audio recording him.

Yeah. And so he wanted to prove to me that he was not, Wearing a wire. So he stripped in front of me during a session. Yes. And I'm taking my notes. The way I do things is I have my computer with me and I'm kind of taking notes and I can talk and engage and type it at the same time. So I wasn't really watching him.

I was making a note and I looked up about the time he got down to his underwear and I was like, you know what? I totally believe you buddy. I totally believe. I believe you. Let's does that's wow. Let pants back on and let's, okay. Yeah. So that was my crazy. Story.

Adam Gragg: And that's why Todd's a trained professional, a trained, licensed professional, he learned, I didn't lose it.

He learned how to, he learned how to deal with those

Todd Nickel: kinds of situations in school. Yeah, that, but [00:42:00] yeah, there you go. Yeah. But that's the one and only time that's happened. And so you

Adam Gragg: never know. You never know. So I, for all of you, you know, you've got some great tips and tools from a different perspective from Todd Nichol.

And so how can somebody that wants to reach you in your practice reach you? Todd?

Todd Nickel: You, they can either call our offices it's Axiom Counseling and Therapy Services here in Wichita. Give the phone number. Is that okay? Phone number and website? Yeah. Three one six 2 3 9 1 8 8 0 Or look us up on the website.

It is axiom counseling.com. Axiom counseling.com. Right. And that's ax i o m as in mary.com. And you'll see all the bios and all the backgrounds from all the clinicians that we have in the office. And you'll see a picture of our. emotional support dogs. Oh, and those

Adam Gragg: are, yeah. The wiener dogs. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Okay. Very good. So, so what I wanna do is, a few other things to think about here is for you right now, on a scale of one to 10 , what. Improvement did you make by listening to some of these tips, these relational tips and emotional tips. So maybe, you know, you could say I gained a whole bunch, or I just gained a little, or, I don't care what it is.

But I [00:43:00] want you to take something away and think about one tip, one trick, one tool that you wanna take away from today, and then apply it. To your life. It's gonna be a risk. It's gonna be an emotional risk. And so for example, it could be something that Todd suggested about meeting new people, or it could be about sharing emotions.

Awkward emotions or asking people questions who are grieving? What is an emotional risk that you could take based on today and something you could teach to somebody else. And also challenge for you. Remember my 70 30 rule change, transformational change is 30% insight. We're getting insight today and it's 70% action.

You have to take some kind of action, and I would encourage you to take some kind of action in the next 24 hours. Take some kind of action in the next 24 hours. If you like this podcast, have me or my team out to speak at your place of work or over Zoom. Would love to do a workshop for you. Would love to do something for you.

So I'm gonna sign off as I always do, make it your mission to live the life now that you wanna be remembered for 10 years after you're gone, you decide your legacy. No one else. I appreciate you greatly, and I'll [00:44:00] see you next time.