Ep94_Manipulative_full
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Adam Gragg: [00:00:00] Welcome to episode 94 of the Decide Your Legacy podcast. Today, I'm going to talk to you about dealing with manipulative people. If you found this podcast helpful, subscribe so you'll never miss another podcast episode. Give it a rating and review on Apple or Spotify. Wherever you get your podcast content, this helps the Decide Your Legacy podcast grow organically, [00:01:00] shows up in people's feeds, and reaches more people and helps more people.

So I'm your host, Adam Gragg. I have been a legacy coach, a writer, speaker, a licensed mental health professional for over 20 years. My passion is to help people develop the self confidence and clarity to face their biggest fears so they can live their legacy. I talk about stuff I struggle with myself.

I'm a fellow traveler. I don't have it all figured out. Something uncomfortable I did recently and I share these things because nothing is more important to your mental health than facing your fears and nothing is more damaging to your mental health than playing it safe. So I didn't play it safe by not retaliating when I had to deal with some false allegations, some accusations towards me.

I just have been trusting God with it, letting it play out. The truth will come out. And it's not that you don't want to assert yourself at times, but sometimes you [00:02:00] just put it in God's hands. So this is the podcast that you do, not just listen to. My listeners get uncomfortable too. What Who is someone in your life that's a challenge?

Someone that's manipulative in your life? Could be a coworker, a family member, a neighbor, a sibling. It could be someone in your church, could even be your pastor. I don't know. Who is it that is manipulative in your life and challenging? And why is this relationship so complicated? So speak that into your phone, write that in your journal, put it somewhere.

People get manipulative as a safety mechanism to get what they want. And you know, it does have a benefit. It keeps them, it preserves their sense of safety and security. How do people manipulate? Defensiveness is a form of manipulation. We're not getting at the core real issue.

Playing the victim is a form of manipulation. Getting nasty and mean is a form of manipulation. Passive aggressive behavior, which I believe is the scariest type of behavior because you never know what somebody is going to be doing and they're working behind the scenes, being dishonest, [00:03:00] deceptive. That's why it is such a big deal when someone gives false testimony or is a.

False witness, because they have, that person has no way of defending themselves. It's all behind their back. That is a form of manipulation. You can manipulate through anger. You can manipulate by deflecting, by never talking about an issue that is bothersome to somebody else or never actually getting at the core issue within yourself.

It's all this deflection. It's the news, you know, it's politics. It's all these other problems with other people or whatever situation it might be. Those are all manipulative tactics. Some people don't want to think of them as manipulation. But manipulation, my definition, is when you are using some sort of non direct method of staying safe and getting your way.

How are you doing this in your life? Think about it. You know, there's a major cost for not dealing with relationships and people in difficult situations in a healthy manner. I mean, it costs, causes a bunch of stress because relationships... Are the cause of stress. I [00:04:00] mean avoiding relationships because we don't believe we can set boundaries and have healthy relationships is going to cause you more stress, so it all boils down to some relational dynamic because people that hide out from people, they are also impacted greatly by relationships.

It's the avoidance of relationships that's feeding their anxiety. Not dealing with it. Manipulative people and succumbing to their manipulation is going to cause you a lot of stress and cause impact on your mental health, your physical health. It can cause you to doubt yourself, which really is your responsibility, but it can contribute to self doubt, self worth issues.

It is hugely impactful and the benefit of knowing how to handle relational situations, which is what I talk to clients about a lot, is the reason they're afraid in relationships. potentially is most common reason I would say is because they don't realize that they have the power to set boundaries in a healthy way. And they can assert themselves and say yes to the right things and no to the wrong things.

And they can [00:05:00] navigate difficult people situations confidently and earn respect in those relationships because of those challenges. So I remember a buddy of mine in college, his, I'll just say his name, his name's Dan and I haven't seen him in a long time. I still really care about the guy. He was a good, good friend.

Haven't stayed in the best touch, but I remember we had a number of conflicts. And one of the conflicts that I had was I would get pissed off when he would smoke in the fraternity house, cigarettes. And cause it was a rule and I'm a rule keeper. I just, it's not a good thing. I can be. difficult with that kind of thing.

So one time we had this event and he was smoking in the house and I, while he was smoking a cigarette, I grabbed it out of his mouth and then we went at it. Like, it was like a clash at that moment. And from that point forward, we became close friends. It's so crazy to think about that because we, my junior and senior year, I mean, I, was very close to Dan.

I mean, we stayed in touch even when he came to my wedding. And I mean, it was always a positive [00:06:00] friendship. I still have very positive feelings about him. So dealing with, and that was a form of conflict that I faced in that situation. And that's the deal with manipulation and dealing with defensive people.

If you face it in a healthy manner, it can actually strengthen your relationships. There isn't a path to intimacy except through conflict. Let me say that again. There is not a path to healthy intimacy except through successfully navigating conflict in a healthy way. Now, I'm not saying I should have grabbed the cigarette out of his mouth with my hand.

That was not the best thing to do. I mean, that was actually a horrible thing to do. But the fact that I stood up and faced him was the positive aspect of that interaction and why it went somewhere good. So let's talk about what you can do to deal with manipulative people in your life. So number one is don't get sucked in.

Remember, these tactics are being utilized because they work. It works to get defensive. It works to [00:07:00] get angry. It works to be nasty. It works to ignore people. It works because it gets under their skin. It gives them It gives your, it works because they take your power in that situation. Your objective is to not give your power away.

They may deflect. They may not want to address a core issue, but your objective is to say, stay on track and to stay calm. And that's the essential thing in situations is to remember that you can preserve your dignity. You can preserve your self respect by staying calm and remembering to engage in.

Calming activities. So, for example, for me, I really like to focus on my breathing in these situations. I've heard it described as may your first, the first word out of your mouth in a difficult conversation be a breath. And I would say focusing on your breathing, slowing it down as I am doing right now.

Now, I like this 5 noticing activity. Five things that you can see, four things that you [00:08:00] can touch. Three things that you can hear, two things that you can smell, one thing you can taste. And the probably number one go to after breathing when dealing with difficult people is to ask a question, to get curious.

Because I know that if I can... Get somebody else thinking rather than emoting, then I'm preserving my power. I'm engaging them in such a way that they have to get out of this behavior or have the opportunity to get out of this manipulative type behavior and engage in a healthy conversation or not. They can choose not to, but you're still not giving away your power.

So number two thing that you can do to deal with manipulative Types of people, manipulative, defensive, difficult people. Okay, we'll just call you difficult people. So number, number two is remember that it's not about you. It's about them. They're difficult because of what is going on in their lives. And you're the target of their lack of self [00:09:00] worth within themselves.

I mean, that is the issue here. It's like their own ego they're consumed by. They're consumed by their own personal. junk. And we interpret it as if it's us, you know, what have we done wrong? Why are we unworthy? Why are we unlovable? What's wrong with me? I mean, that's such an easy thing to do, but it's not the truth.

You know, another college frat story I can share with you. I got a lot of these is I remember one time where there was a guy in the house that was drinking a lot. And I think that's what was going on. But anyway, his parents were going through a divorce and he was hurting. And so some of my friends came to me and said, this guy's really struggling.

And it was the beginning of the school year. And so they were dealing with him and whatever. And so I knew there was a problem going on in this guy's life emotionally. He was struggling. I mean, like it wasn't about me. It was about him. And then I had some interaction with him. That was a conflict. Again, I'm not kind of the rule follower or whatever kind of guy, which is true.

And [00:10:00] he ended up spitting in my face because he was pissed off. And I still to this day, believe it or not, I came, I went on a run and I was remembering this story because I ran, I got a little three mile loop that I run around my house where I live and so I sometimes do processing and thinking while I run.

And at the very end of the run, I thought, why did I not like retaliate? Because I have been in fights before. I've not, wasn't always the safest kind of guy, nicest guy in college and high school and things, but I didn't in this case. In fact, I remember feeling compassion for him, knowing it wasn't about me.

And so I can reflect on that situation and say, that was only a God thing that I didn't like, put him in a headlock or tackle him or spit back at him or do something stupid. It was a God thing, but I didn't. And I have fond memories of that guy too. I saw a picture of him on Facebook. I mean, it was a good, ended up being a good situation, a good life.

Growing growth situation. So tell yourself the truth in these situations that it's not about you and what is really going on in that person's life that is impacting them so much [00:11:00] that they're engaging in some kind of destructive behavior or they're really sabotaging relationships or they're destroying their own lives.

So, for example, if you look at an alcoholic, you can say. What a mess. You know, why are they doing that kind of thing? You know, they're just losers. They're pathetic. I'm better than them. You know, and that's ego right there. I mean, big time ego stuff. Ego tells you you're better than somebody else or you're a piece of crap.

You know, instead in those situations, what is... Going on that's so painful in that person's life that they're resorting to hiding from life through alcohol or drugs or relationships or whatever, any addictive type behavior. It changes your perspective to actually having compassion for them. Why are they so lonely?

What is really going on? How can I reach them and know that even if they spit in your face, it's not about you? Which I'm not saying you want to always tolerate that kind of behavior. I mean, that's, again, but it wasn't about me. It was not about me. So. I know of another situation that happened, and this has happened a number of different times over the last five years, but I've been ignored by people, [00:12:00] blatantly, completely ignored, and it's difficult to deal with because I feel like I'm a friendly person, and I want to be friendly, and I want to say hello, and, but It's people that do not want to interact with me for whatever reason, and that's okay.

It's not about me. It's about them. I have to remember it's about them. I'm still going to be friendly because it involves being in social situations where I need to be friendly. It's important that I'm a role model. It's important that I rise above difficult behavior for me to be a leader for my daughter, to be a leader for my family.

And I have to deal with some difficult things in my life, so I have to just not make it about me. Remember, it's their, they're giving away their power through whatever their resentment is, whatever personal issues they have, whatever things they didn't deal with in their childhood, whatever things they didn't deal with as a parent.

I don't know what it is, but I do know that it's not about me, and that helps me tremendously. So, first two, don't get sucked in and give away your power. Second one is remember, it is not [00:13:00] about you. Don't give your power to them through believing it is. So if you found this podcast helpful so far, hit the link to shatter proof yourself.

This is a worksheet and video, seven small steps to a giant leap in your mental health. You do not want to miss this. It can change your life. So number three, let go of anger and resentment. And I talk about some of these things, like, I've shared with you some difficult stories with my audience. I've shared difficult stories about in seventh grade, I was bullied by some guys and I ended up actually spitting in one of their faces and breaking my hand on one of another guy's mouth.

And as I talk about these things, I, I've had moments where I feel resentment. Even though it was so long ago, I mean, I'm almost 50 years old. I'm 49 years old. This is when I was 13, you know, 1986 is, is when I was in seventh grade. So why do I still have resentment? And as I, this was on a run as well, but I was thinking about some of these difficult situations and just letting [00:14:00] go of it.

Cause I, I don't feel like I have resentment towards those situations in seventh grade right now, and I don't want, these could be great people that I was involved with back then. I mean, that was so long ago, and I wish them well. I hope they're great people. I hope they're impacting their kids, and maybe they have grandkids, and maybe they have an excellent marriage, and I wish them well.

I mean, that resentment that I've held on to, and that anger that I've held on to, that's a self protective function. It serves. a role in my life to keep me from getting hurt again. And that's not good because trusting is going to be very helpful to me. I mean, it's been hard for me to let go of resentment and I've had some betrayal in my life and it's been difficult because I have tried to differentiate.

Well, why did I trust somebody? And trust them so much and yet get hurt? And what did I do? I've even blamed myself. What did I do to contribute to that? And the answer to that in most situations [00:15:00] is nothing. I mean, betrayal is a reflection of somebody else and their decisions and their life and whatever's going on.

There's no excuse for it. It's like people can betray, like a father could leave his kids and not be there. while they grow up and come back and apologize. And if that father says, you know, your mother was so difficult, I just had to get away. I felt like you'd have the best situation with your mom. Well, that is manipulative communication.

That's not true. I mean, the reality, reality is, is they could have done whatever it took to navigate that situation, to be there in that child's life. There's no explanation for that that's going to be sufficient. Sure, that father could have been deployed. Well, the kids are going to understand that. That father could have died and is not present.

Of course, that's going to be understandable. I mean, they die of cancer, whatever. And, but someone did this step back from that situation and to not be involved in their kids lives and then to come back. And I would hope they would at some [00:16:00] point, but they're going to have to. Own that. That my abandonment was my responsibility.

There was no excuse for that. It doesn't matter what your mom did. It doesn't matter what your stepdad did. It doesn't matter what you guys did. It doesn't matter, period. It is on me. I have to own that. And they will never heal from that situation unless they fully own that. It's crucial. And so you have to though, let go of your anger and resentment.

I have to let go of my anger and resentment because it's not going to help me. You know, I've been re I've been learning how to rebuild trust by trusting friends. I have one friend, Todd, who I've really learned how to rebuild trust with him. I've learned how to rebuild trust with my friend Brent, and I've learned how to rebuild trust with my friend Dave.

And it's been, it's been really good to see the difference between who is trustworthy and who is not trustworthy. And I'm very grateful that God's brought people in my life that are trustworthy. And then even professionally, I've been learning to trust my intuition on this is a situation that is. Good to engage in, and this is the right [00:17:00] path, the right person to hire, the right person to not hire, and trust my intuition.

And I let go, as I let, have let go of resentment and anger, it's scary, boy, because I don't have that self protective. function there. You know, I mean, I have to trust somebody. I mean, it's like, wow, I could get hurt again here. It's super scary, but it also is empowering because now I can live life again.

You know, I can live and experience life. And I heard a quote from Cardinal Newman, who started out as an Anglican priest and then converted to Catholicism, was eventually a Cardinal in the 18th century. It was, you know, don't be concerned so much about what kind of life you're living now, be concerned more about whether you're living life at all.

It's something like that. Like, did we even start living our lives and experiencing life rather than hiding out was basically the gist of the quote and kind of inspiring dude as well. So the fourth action you can take to deal with manipulative people in your life is ask for what you [00:18:00] need. So if something is bothering you in your life, or if somebody is being manipulative, or someone's being defensive, or if somebody's doing something unethical, or someone's not following through with something that they said they were going to do in your life, well, you can ask for what you need.

I mean, that's the... That's some of the stuff that doesn't happen in relationships. I hear this again and again, and I've heard it for 20 freaking five years. Seriously, sitting down with thousands of people, I've heard the same thing again and again. I shouldn't have to ask for what I need. They should know.

I shouldn't have to ask for what I need from my wife, from my husband. I shouldn't have to explain that. You know, they're married to me. Come on. Life is busy. You know, life is short. You're going to have to communicate and take responsibility for identifying what you need in your life because they're not going to know.

And they're going to forget unless you express it. I'm not saying they shouldn't have some responsibility to remember. They should, that's a healthy thing. I shouldn't say they should, but they can, they can take responsibility for their own behavior, [00:19:00] but you will have times when you have to ask for what you need.

So I'll give you an example. Somebody. plays the victim, okay? You're going and saying to someone in your life that you want more attention, or you want them to be punctual, or you want them to come to your house for Thanksgiving, or whatever it may be. You want them to pay better attention to your kids, or to engage your, their grandkids in a different way.

I don't know what it may be. And they go to this, Oh, I'm such a horrible person. I'm a horrible grandma. I must be so bad. I mean, or you really, Same kind of thing, but you ask for something in your marriage. Like, can we go on a date night every couple of weeks? Or can we hug? Can you hug me more often? I really need more affection.

I mean, not going to use kind of awkward terms like that, but you're asking for what you need. And they say, well, I'm just a horrible wife. Or you really don't care about me, do you? You know, that's all. a manipulative strategy and you want to recognize and step away from it. It's kind of recognizing the fear for where your fear is, there lies your task.

You recognize it in yourself. You recognize it in other people because it's the fear talking in them. And then you ask for [00:20:00] what you need. So like, for example, you, you know, I'm just a horrible grandma. And the temptation will be to say, no, you're not. You know, you're a good grandma. You do all this and that.

That's what they want you to do. That's giving away your power and that's getting sucked into the drama. Don't do that. If they say, well, I'm just a horrible wife. They're going to want you to say, no, you're a great wife.

No, don't do that. You can say something like, and you just stay on track. This is my concern. And here's what I need. You know, I don't know about all this other stuff about whatever's going on in your mind about this being a horrible grandma or whatever. I don't know what's going on there, but the concern that I have is that your grandkids would like, I would like you to have more time with your grandkids, one on one with them, or I would like you not to buy things for your grandkids as much as investing in them and engaging in them emotionally and getting to know who they are, and that's what you're expressing.

And, and they say, well, I'm just a horrible grandma. Well, I don't. That's not the issue here. Let's stay on track. So you don't get sucked into that manipulative deflection. You know, [00:21:00] or I'm just a horrible person. Don't get sucked in. You're not a horrible person. Don't say that. Just say, well, here's what I want to focus on right now.

Those might all be things to talk about in another conversation, but here's what I want to talk about now. So number five, be prepared. So you can make a list of all these people in your life who tend to be manipulative. Whoever it may be. So I know there's certain people that are going to ignore me. I know there are people in my life are going to be very difficult and I'm going to have to deal with difficult people the rest of my life.

And so are you. I'm not the only person. I mean, we all have people in our lives like that. So you may know of a certain coworker. You may know of somebody in your family. You may have somebody that you interact with consistently at work or in your neighborhood or your church. you're not a pass. You're going to have people you're going to have to deal with. But the thing is, is you can be prepared for these situations because these. Manipulative type interactions, I can almost guarantee you, and if I was a millionaire with, if I had 10 million dollars in the bank, I'd bet all 10 million on this, that you're going to face the same manipulative tactics again from these people.

They're not going to [00:22:00] go to new ones, as many new things as you think. They probably have three or four tools or things they can play. They're not going to go, I mean, it's going to be passive aggressive, it could be ignoring somebody, it could be anger, it could be making false allegations, it could be just blatant lying, it could be pa it could be just, you know, cutting people off, ignoring them, not talking to them at all, these are all Cowardly, manipulative tactics.

They take no courage whatsoever. But you can be the one who is prepared, who is courageous, who is addressing things in a direct, mature manner. You can be the adult and rise above these situations and then live your life with some self confidence because you're going to feel great about yourself as you handle these situations in an appropriate manner.

And I have a worksheet called The Dear Man Assertiveness Worksheet. And you can look at this, print it off. Check it out. For these difficult situations with people, be prepared by having an assertive conversation in these specific types of situations [00:23:00] when appropriate. Sometimes, like you said, like I said, when somebody is doing things that are difficult, sometimes it's okay to walk away.

And that's what I've had to do at certain situations. You know, I heard a guy talking about this mixed martial artist who is really world class and somebody asked the guy, well, what would you do if somebody insulted your wife in front of you and asked you to fight him or whatever? And his answer was that he'd walk away because there's no point in it.

Why would I, I mean, and then the guy was saying like, well, what do you mean you'd walk away? You know, you're, they're insulting your wife. You're not going to stand up for your wife. And his attitude was, I am standing up for my wife. I don't know if they have a gun. I don't know what they're going to, you know, how many other people they're with.

I'm just going to walk away and I'm going to deal with what I have to deal with but not get involved in situations that I know I can avoid. That was an assertive confidence and a way of really loving his wife was to walk away. So you can be prepared and I'm a big fan of martial arts. I'm a big fan of practicing communication with somebody in the mirror [00:24:00] before you actually have that interaction.

You know, I am involved in a small business group when we call these fierce conversations and people will talk about the kind of fierce conversations they're going to have in there with their employees or with customers or with family and even role play with each other or in the mirror. at some point before they actually had that conversation.

So there you have it. Let me go ahead and review five ways to deal with manipulative people in your life. You're going to deal with stuff. You're going to have these kinds of people in your life and you love many of them, which is great. I'm glad because you can build relationships. through conflict and through not getting sucked into the manipulation.

So number one is don't get sucked in. Don't give away your power. Remember, number two, it's not about you. It's about them. It's a reflection of who they are and how they feel about themselves. Not really how they feel about you. There are legitimate reasons to address concerns, but these are not those situations that I'm talking about right now.

So let go of the anger, work on the anger and resentment and learn how to forgive and let go and give people. [00:25:00] Second chances to believe the best in people, to not hold onto these things forever and ever. Amen. Number four, ask for what you need assertively. And number five, be prepared because these situations are going to come.

So what was most helpful for you to, from today? So remember my 2080 rule, insight is 20 percent of transformation. Action is 80 percent or more. You must take action. So what are you going to take action on? From this podcast in the next 24 hours, I challenge you not only to take action, but to teach it to somebody else naturally.

Take an emotional risk. based on something that you learned from the Decide Your Legacy podcast today. So if you love this episode, tell somebody about it, tell somebody about the podcast, share it with a friend. And if you want to hear me speak, have me out to speak your company live or over Zoom, hire me or one of my other legacy coaches to start your legacy journey.

I will sign off the way that I always do. Make it your mission to live the life now [00:26:00] that you want to be remembered for 10 years after you're gone. You decide your legacy. No one else. I appreciate you greatly, and I'll see you next time.